The Reading League Conference 2023 was a high-energy, high-impact event, and our three Literacy Talks hosts were there. This episode voices their observations on the conference’s many noteworthy sessions, key takeaways, and new insights about research and classroom practice. From Kareem Weaver’s unforgettable message of love to standout sessions from the profession’s leading researchers and practitioners, including Katie Pace Miles, Dr. Tiffany Hogan, Steve Dykstra, and more, this episode delivers a recap of one of the year’s most important science of reading events.
Subscribe to our Literacy Talks podcast digest and never miss an episode! We’ll send you summaries of every session, links to the resources discussed on each show, and some extra goodies so that your learning never stops.
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Download the new Reading Horizons Discovery Product Guide.
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The Reading League Conference 2023 was a high-energy, high-impact event, and our three Literacy Talks hosts were there. This episode voices their observations on the conference’s many noteworthy sessions, key takeaways, and new insights about research and classroom practice. From Kareem Weaver’s unforgettable message of love to standout sessions from the profession’s leading researchers and practitioners, including Katie Pace Miles, Dr. Tiffany Hogan, Steve Dykstra, and more, this episode delivers a recap of one of the year’s most important science of reading events.
Subscribe to our Literacy Talks podcast digest and never miss an episode! We’ll send you summaries of every session, links to the resources discussed on each show, and some extra goodies so that your learning never stops.
Subscribe to our podcast digest.
Download the new Reading Horizons Discovery Product Guide.
Access the show notes.
Read the transcripts.
Hello literacy leaders and champions. Welcome to literacy talks, a podcast series for Reading Horizons dedicated to exploring the ideas, trends, insights and practical issues that will help us all improve our professional practice knowledge and confidence in teaching reading. Our host is Stacy Hurst, professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor at Reading Horizons where reading momentum begins. Joining Stacy are Donell Pons, a recognized expert in literacy and special education and Lindsay Kemeny, and author, speaker and elementary teacher. Today's episode is a whirlwind recap of the October 2023 Reading league conference, our hosts will share the keynote and session presentations that were the most impactful and memorable for them. From Kareem Weaver's unforgettable messages to sessions with the leading researchers and practitioners and reading science today. It's a you are there way to experience the energy and momentum from one of the years most significant science of reading events. Let's get started.
Stacy Hurst:Welcome to another episode of literacy Talks. My name is Stacy Hurst and I'm joined by Donell Pons and Lindsay Kemeny, as we are every episode, and today, we have the exciting opportunity to talk about something that I think all of you might enjoy hearing whether or not you attended the reading league conference, and it was actually Lindsay that chose this topic. So Lindsay, we're going to turn it right over to you. I
Lindsay Kemeny:loved going to the reading league conference this year, we all just recently returned. And it's just such a great conference. It's so fun just to collaborate and connect with people all over who are just as passionate as we are about literacy. And so we're gonna start things off by talking about Kareem Weaver's, opening keynote, which was amazing. And maybe a topic that might surprise some of you because he was talking about love. And and let me set this up for a little bit. Within these reading wars, we have so many really big emotions. So I want to start things off by just asking both of you, why do you think that is? Well, I
Stacy Hurst:think it's because as educators, we care so much about our students, right. And especially this topic, more than a lot of others, we know will impact their daily lives in so many ways, we've seen the impact when people can't access text, we've seen the impact when they can. And in addition, I think it's more about our own lives, too, right? Like if I start thinking about the ways that my life has been enriched by my ability to read, some of it is very emotional, you know, the right text at the right time when you're struggling with something in life. And I think all of that, including that we are human beings, and we feel passionately about our work. And so I think that may be part of it. I really appreciate this question, Lindsay, because I have experienced it from older educators. And I also wonder if when we talk about the reading wars, thinking about when they actually started. And I think the climate at the time was very emotional in general. So I wonder if some of that carried over? That's a really good question.
Lindsay Kemeny:Thank you. Donell, do you have anything to add to that? Well,
Donell Pons:I mean, it's pretty similar to Stacy. But my thoughts also lead to I don't care who you are. But you think about those first times when you take a child to kindergarten or if you have preschool, that's fantastic. But you just get the very beginnings of it, the percolating, but then you take him into kindergarten, certainly by first grade, and every parent the wishes, I hope they they're a good reader, I sure hope they take to reading. That's every parent's wish every guardians wish for that child that hits the school door, then on the teachers end, know it for years, we didn't have the information that we needed for those kids that we knew needed more. And we wondered, why can't I help the student, this otherwise bright student who doesn't seem to be accelerating? isn't meeting I don't know what's gonna happen to the student and it doesn't feel good to be an educator in that space either. So yes, there's a lot of emotion surrounding this because so much depends on this. And we had so very little support and really solid good, scientifically based validated evidence to what we should be doing to help students. And then I think in addition to all of this You've got to think about the statistics, and not being able to move the needle and talking about for years students exiting our education system without the skills that they needed. And that's a big load to carry. Absolutely.
Lindsay Kemeny:And I think that a lot of times we focus on those casualties. There are casualties in this war, right, the reading wars. And I know a lot of us as parents, you know, there's a lot of anger. So it's easy to be angry. And I know for me, it's it can be easy just to turn to that anger or being impatient. But I think Kareem Weaver's everything he said, was just so spot on, you know, he said, We can't fight all the time. I mean, these are reading wars, we can't fight all the time. And he said, We all fall short at certain times, and we need grace. We have to extend grace to others. And I would say to ourselves, as well, because I know, I made lots of mistakes, you know, and I felt really guilty at the things that I didn't know and the things that I didn't do. And I know that I'm not alone with that a lot of people feel that. And that's why we always say when we know better, we do better. So it's good to know, like the like, so then what can we do, because the goal is to change practice, not to make enemies. And we have to be careful how we go about sharing this information. Even if we're angry, even if we're so passionate about it. We don't want to make enemies we want to change practice. And I thought that was such a good point. So any thoughts or advice on how we can share our passion? How we can be clear about what the science of reading entails without turning off? Others?
Donell Pons:Yeah, and I love Kareem Weaver, because he has this presence that is so calming, right? Yep, powerful. It's a really nice mix of the two together, because he can say the things. And it seems to be almost as if you Wow, okay, this is first time I'm hearing this, even though it's not the first time you're hearing this. So he has that ability to do that. And I was just thinking about trying to emulate some of the characteristics that he has. And I think it's the sort of open listening. Because when we're open to what somebody else is telling us about their practice, then we can say, Oh, I understand or, or that's interesting about your practice, because I've actually listened and then say, Have you heard of, have you been introduced to? There are things that are happening within our state? I mean, there are things that there are ways in which you can open that door, I think and there, thankfully, because of legislation that's moving forward, conversations that are happening, there are ways to start that I think more readily than we used to. I
Lindsay Kemeny:love that great advice to listen, be an open listener and active listener. Sometimes we just want to jump in to maybe what we know. And then Donell, I love how you kind of phrased a lot of that as a question after listening. Have you tried? Did you know? Yeah, those are all very non threatening, gentle ways. I think, Stacy, anything to add? Yeah. And
Stacy Hurst:you know, I think any of us who've been in the space for a while, have had these conversations, in one way or the other. And to your point, about allowing grace, there have been some conversations. I feel like I've handled well, and others not at all, because I do let my passion override some of the things that are at hand. But I would say one really important thing is to build on what we have in common, right? Every conversation we're having with an educator about literacy entails two or more people who want students to read, we all have that in common. Nobody disputes that reading is comprehension building. Right? We know that we address that. And then we've talked about this so frequently on our podcasts. But I think keeping our conversation surrounding the research, and not people, I think is another really important thing, even though it seems counterintuitive because to me, literacy, instruction, and science is personal. It's personal to me, but maybe in those conversations, not making it so personal. And then that gives you the opportunity to listen, like Donell said, and hear things that we have in common. And then as you guide the conversation, just keep focused on the research and the practices surrounding those. Sorry, you don't want to leave that out.
Lindsay Kemeny:I love that. He said something in that keynote I thought was really great because he's talking about the students and he's like I love them more than I hate anyone else, right? So kind of putting them at the forefront and what they need. And he had said, The world is held together by the love and passion of a few people. And I love that I think a lot of us have that passion and love for their students. And that's why there's so many good things happening. And then it's also he talked about how it's easy to despair. And it's easy to feel lonely in this work. And I know sometimes teachers feel like they're alone, or they're the only one at their school, or they're having to hide that they're doing evidence based practice, which is crazy, but they're, they're scared, they're lonely. What advice would you guys have for those who feel lonely in this work?
Donell Pons:Yeah, I think we've talked about it before about kicking the door open a little bit, right, literally, and getting across the hall or next door and getting to know the people that are teaching across from you to the side. And then also showing up in those spaces where teachers are having conversations at your building at your site, and turning those conversations into opportunities to learn because sometimes they can turn into conversations of despair. And that can happen a lot, because there's a lot that happens in a day as an educator. But I like turning those conversations around to what can I do to make an impact for the student. And oftentimes that shifts the conversation, maybe it was headed in a direction that was more negative because I remember when I was in my teaching program, of being taught by other educators, one of them said, never step into the teacher lounge, because all you hear is negative things. And to some extent that can happen. But like I said, if you can just turn the conversation to I'd really like to learn and then you start to see you find folks within your building who are bright lights, who are doing their best who are working very hard. And that's a good place to start. Because there's like Stacy said, you have things in common things in common like, I really want to help my students. I appreciate
Stacy Hurst:that response. Because honestly, I had the opportunity as a first grade teacher, to teach, obviously. But then when I became a literacy coach, I saw how my peers were teaching reading, and you don't get the opportunity to do that, typically, as a classroom teacher, so I think having those conversations, it would be helpful, then you do find people who are like minded or who you can start to have those conversations with. I was so lucky when I was teaching that the people I taught with were fantastic. We were learning together, we created that culture of working cohesively and learning new things and failing at some things and trying again, I currently in the teaching position I'm in now, which as you know, is in the university setting. I'm teaching pre service teachers. I work with a delightful faculty, but I am the only reading person at our university. And so what's really been so vital to me, is reaching out beyond where I teach, right, I am part of a group of professors of the science of reading, led by Stephanie Stoller, some of you've heard of it before, that has really been very beneficial for me. And I know a lot of other professors too, so you don't feel alone. We have social media channels, science of reading, what I should have learned in college is a great place to go to find like minded and people who are willing to teach us right, teach and learn from each other. So I think that would be what I would say. One
Donell Pons:thing I wanted to add, because I think it it's got to be said, we're doing a lot of which is good data collection. And and now we're being held accountable for data to which is great. Again, all of that is good and can be very helpful. It's a part of this whole thing. However, I do want folks to be careful. Data is not a weapon. Data is an opportunity. So I think there are teachers who feel like it's being weaponized to say, you're not doing this, you're not doing that you have an expectation. And we need to look at the data as opportunity. Here's an opportunity for me to make a difference in a student's life. As a group, as an individual. It's on all of us. But I think that's important because data can be terrifying. I think sometimes.
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Lindsay Kemeny:So my advice for someone who's feeling lonely in this work, your professional learning community doesn't need to be limited by the walls of your school building. Like what Stacey was was saying, and that's what I love about, like, I'm thankful for social media, because that has, you know, been able to expand my reach and the people I connect with, I love the reading league. And so you have this league behind you, even if they're not there. And if you feel alone, and by yourself, you have like this invisible army behind you, and everyone. You know, we're also passionate about this, and we want you to succeed. And we want more students to succeed and more teachers to succeed. And so just know, just, I would say, find your people. And I love what Donell was saying about opening up your door in your classroom. And you can also find your people outside of those walls. So let's get into the conference a little bit. And I just thought that, you know, each of us can maybe share a session or two, or three if you want and just maybe some key takeaways, something you enjoyed about it. Who wants to go first?
Donell Pons:Okay, in my defense, I've got to say that I was on a lot of drugs because I'd been in an accident, just
Lindsay Kemeny:concussion, everyone's get a free
Donell Pons:pass. Among other things, my I had no use of my, you know, left arm, thankfully, I can use my right. Stacy had to help. She was my left arm. So thank you, Stacy. And so I was typing my notes into my phone. And I also had a baggie of the medication I was to take for pain. So all of that said, I believe that someone was either quoting Dr. Tiffany Hogan, or she was there, I can't get confirmation because that's his name I have associated. But some really interesting things were associated with. I've typed, I typed in her name and my notes, early identification of both word reading and listening comprehension. They're separate skills. And we need to stimulate both of them was really good statements. Very powerful one, and then the next one. Poor readers are not all the same. was really good, too. Because you have a tendency to fall into a thing thinking, oh, yeah, I've seen this before. I know what this is. But poor readers are not all the same. So that was very good to start off. Yeah,
Lindsay Kemeny:great, some great notes that you took even in your conditions. Stacy, what was a session that stuck out for you? Uh, you
Stacy Hurst:know, one of my favorite sessions was actually one of the first if not the first I went to, but it was Neena Saha. And she was talking about translating science to practice. And her a lot of her work has focused on that. But she started by talking about the barriers to that. And we know sometimes you have to pay to get a study, right? Or you don't understand the scientific jargon, researchers use different terminology. The one I think of most frequently is the term sight words, right. And then also, you have to have somebody knowledgeable translating that research, or it's not going to have the effect that you need. She so she talked about all those things, and just the nature of research versus teaching and how to bridge that she talked about the IES practice guides, which I've used a lot in my work, and I recommend anybody to look those up and utilize them. And then she left on a very hopeful note. She talked about some models in medicine and some apps that are being utilized by doctors, that if we could have something like that in education that would help us to meet the needs of students, like you said, Donell, not every poor reader is the same. And so being able to put in some information about a student and getting some accurate information and practices, I think would be so great for all of us. But yeah, her session was really good. I loved her energy around this topic, too. I think in the field, she's going to really lead in some ways this research to practice gap.
Lindsay Kemeny:She's great. I wish I could have attended that session, because I haven't heard her speak before but she puts together a monthly recap of research and and shares that out and you can go to meta metrics. What's their website? It's like meta metrics by nc.com. And sign up for that, because she just does a monthly summary of the latest research. And she's great. I love anyone that's trying to help, you know, get the information out there, and then what to do with it?
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, and I think there's some really good archives there. I think she mentioned she's not currently keeping that up to date. She's no longer with meta metrics. But I think we can look forward to a lot of great things from her. That will be very helpful for the field.
Lindsay Kemeny:Okay, I thought it was the opposite. I thought she was doing something independent. And now she's with meta metrics. So maybe it's the opposite.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, it was the opposite. Actually, meta metrics, noticed her work. And then she worked for them for a bit. And now she doesn't and she's working on her own stuff again, which again, I'm really looking forward to. Okay,
Lindsay Kemeny:um, one that stood out to me was Steve Dykstra. Yes. And it was kind of a repeat for me, but I wanted to go listen to it again. And some of you may have heard him talk about this bullseye analogy, where he says, the strongest science like the strongest research that we have is the bullseye, but that there's not enough in the bullseye to cover everything we need to teach in a day. And so he, you know, he was saying, we will step outside that bullseye, right. But we want to be careful. And we always want to be mindful of our own bias. And we need to know where the science ends and our best judgment begins. So he's kind of talking about those different decisions that we make. And another thing he said, I loved. He said, don't love your ideas so much that you won't abandon them. And don't be too quick to move from the center of that bullseye, which I just think is a really good reminder for for all of us. Danielle, did you have another one that you wanted to bring up?
Donell Pons:Well, I was just gonna say, Stacy, and I got to hear him speak at Big Sky too. I think he's making the circuit with the bull's eye, which is fantastic. And he's back in action. He's got all the energy that you're used to from Steve Dykstra, and I love it. We're here for it. And I think this is it can't be said enough. That's why I love seeing him turn up to give this very same discussion, because I don't think we can say it enough. Again, what we do know what we don't know and how you make decisions around trying to meet the needs of your student, right. Not every poor reader is the same. So something that may have worked, right, there's been challenges down the road. I attended one with Dr. Katherine pace, miles. Did anyone else attend that? Yes, I did. Hey, awesome, that we can have a three way conversation here.
Lindsay Kemeny:I think she presented twice. So which one? Yeah,
Stacy Hurst:so she did present three times for me because she was at the pre service conference as well. So I attended all three sessions, including the orthographic mapping and phase theory. And then she also did one specifically on high frequency words, at the pre service teacher conference, she talked about her tutoring program that she does at her university. That's really awesome, too. I love that she studied under Lynnie, airy. And I think she's a great example of turning research into practice. She is one
Lindsay Kemeny:of my favorite researchers. Because of that. She's so good at explaining the research in an easy to understand way. And I just love her. She's amazing. So Donna, what did you like about her presentation?
Donell Pons:Well, again, like both of you have already stated, I love that. Not only did she lay out the research, but then she follows it up with so what would that look like? And she gives an example, which was found, I don't think people are used to that right there. Right? And when you're sitting at a session yet you get an example. And so she would she took us through orthographic mapping. And I thought she did a really good job of what we we've heard it many, many times, right? We may know what it is. But she went ahead and you know, walked us through it. But she also had some interesting things to say in there. So she said, how do we read words by prediction by analogy by decoding, that takes us into adulthood? So she had us really think about the way in which we look at words. And then she said, What if it's unfamiliar? If it's unfamiliar word, what's reliable is decoding. Then the analogy then the prediction, she went through that, again, she told us reminded us about we go from memory to site, we analyze the smallest units of sound. And she also went ahead and showed us an example of what we could do within you know, some work that we do with students. Stacy, what did you pull from that one? I
Stacy Hurst:was really, I love the face theory of word recognition. And I know she was emphasizing that throughout her talk, and I feel like that is probably I don't When I say it's an underestimated theory, but I think it can make the biggest difference in our practice, if we really understand it, what I loved about her talk is exactly what you said, Danelle, she was addressing that phase theory. And with practical application, if a student is exhibiting this, then we do this. And that will take them to the next phase. And so I really appreciated that order that she did that and the way she communicated, it was so clear.
Donell Pons:Yeah, I love that she even went down. She said, so let's do a spelling check. We're gonna say spell correct rate. I mean, she gave me just handy things to go like that, which I thought was interesting.
Lindsay Kemeny:I went to her session on high frequency words, which, you know, she talks about that a lot, because she's done a lot of research there. It was so excellent. And I love you know, I've always referred to high frequency words, like I've said, they exist on a continuum, you know, but I like something she said, where she says, the regularity of high frequency words, is an interaction, an interaction between what the student knows, the school knows, and the teacher knows. And I just thought that was really interesting, like just a little twist to that idea of the continuum. And I like that, she said that you have the right to decide which words are irregular, that kind of drives me crazy. Sometimes when someone has a picture of their, you know, their high frequency words, and it has the little heart or the little tricky parts circled and someone else's, like, what that's totally regular. Well, it might not be to that child who hasn't learned the th diagraph. Maybe it's a kindergarten student, or whatever, you know. So I like that she just, you know, that ownership goes to you. And you can decide which words are irregular or not depending on what you've taught, and what the student knows, and what they need to know to access the text that you have. And then another interesting point, which I've heard her talk before is about the function words that a lot of those function words are harder to learn, because they're more difficult to visualize. And she was talking about the different exposures that students need to learn these words. And that those words that are difficult to imagine, like those function words they need for more exposures than other words. And so it's just really interesting, because she just went through her different research. And then again, she's always focused on applying it. So that was an excellent session.
Stacy Hurst:I appreciated that too. Because the way we choose those high frequency words, I've just approached them in order of frequency, for utilization sake, but you know what, I think her emphasis on function words, was really eye opening to me, because I think she also shared like 30 of the first 50 words are function words, like the high frequency. So they're really important to use in context to share that. And then just one. This is just a little aside, but I think it's kind of cool. But I found on Amazon, these, they look like markers, but they're really hearts stamps. So my students are using those in their tutoring. And Lindsey, when you were talking about some words, have hearts on them where other people say, well, that's not a heart word. And I'm just thinking about my own students having that conversation. And we had the opportunity to say it depends on what you've taught, depends on what the student knows. And we call them temporarily irregular in those cases, but some will always be irregular. So anyway, again, really fun and application. I love how she presents the information is great.
Lindsay Kemeny:All right, and then how about just some overall observations from the conference, any general things you want to share? One exciting thing is that the reading league announced a new part of their website called the compass, which just has tons of resources, everything you can imagine. So if you haven't checked that out the compass for the reading League, then I highly suggest you spend some time but you can go on a rabbit hole.
Donell Pons:What I loved about it is there's information. It's organized in a way that if you have legislators that you've been trying to work with, there's information available for them. If there are individuals who are trying to make decisions as a district, there's information. So I love the way they've put this together so that it will meet the needs of various groups who are trying to make a difference in reading that it was great. To your
Stacy Hurst:point, that group of professors that I was talking about, we actually had a sneak peek of it in one of our meetings and that goes to show you how no pennant well pun intended, all encompassing. It is because there really are a lot of various resources on there. One session I did attend that was related to that is the curriculum evaluation guidelines that the reading league puts out. And Carrie curto walked us through those. They're so thorough, and you know, she talked about them in usage of being able to select a curriculum and evaluate them. But you can also use those to check your own knowledge of concepts. Right. So I think there are a lot of usages for those kinds of things. And then the big announcement is that next year they're reading the conference will be in North Carolina. Yes, you? Yeah.
Lindsay Kemeny:Excited. I've never been there. I enjoyed going into the exhibit room, vendor room, what is it called? With all the different vendors there? And you know what, I think it's really exciting, just to see the increase of quality and programs, different products and things that can support us in this work. And I just feel like, you know, I feel like there's this unity. And it's just like, Yeah, let's flood the market with this stuff. You know, and so I just thought that was exciting. Any other overall? Yes, don't know.
Donell Pons:And I'd love Lindsey that there's conversation. So vendors are having good conversations with teachers, which I think is fantastic. They're taking feedback. I thought it was great, too. I love the interaction.
Lindsay Kemeny:There were a lot more people than last year, I think there was 1500. So it was crowded. So I think that's great that they're going to North Carolina next year, I think there's going to be more space probably.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, and one thing Lindsey was you were talking about finding our community, right, conferences are a great way to do that. And that was one of the things I enjoyed about this one, too, we got to see people IRL, as they say, We don't often see and we just start making these connections and having these associations that are really beneficial.
Lindsay Kemeny:Great. Well, thank you, everyone. Thanks for this conversation. If you're listening in, I hope you get a chance sometime to go to the reading LEAD conference. You You won't be disappointed.
Stacy Hurst:Thank you. And thank you, Lindsay. For this topic. It's true, there are so many things that we can do to continue to learn. And conferences are a great way to do that. I really loved this conversation and a lot of other conversations that come as a result of that. So speaking of conversations, we hope you'll join us next time on the next episode of literacy talks.
Narrator:Thanks for joining us today for literacy talks, the podcast series for literacy leaders and champions everywhere. We invite you to join the science of reading collective, our free community and resource hub so you can stay current with new ideas, free webinars, resources and more. And be sure to visit literacy talks online for resources, access to every season's episodes and more at reading horizons.com/literacy talks. It's an exciting time to teach reading and ensure your students reach grade level proficiency this school year. Literacy talks comes to you from Reading Horizons where reading momentum begins. Join us next time