Literacy Talks

Dyslexia: What Every Teacher Needs to Know

October 12, 2022 Reading Horizons Season 2 Episode 8
Literacy Talks
Dyslexia: What Every Teacher Needs to Know
Show Notes Transcript

Too often, parents, classroom teachers, administrators, and even pediatricians have difficulty identifying the signs of dyslexia. Students are sometimes adept at hiding their reading struggles…and not every student who has difficulty learning to read has dyslexia. In this episode, our Literacy Talks trio will share their experiences identifying students who may need evaluation and support services and tips for talking to families about helping their children.

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Narrator:

Hello literacy leaders and champions. Welcome to literacy talks, the podcast series from Reading Horizons dedicated to exploring the ideas, trends, insights and practical issues that will help us create literacy momentum. Our series host is Stacy Hurst, professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Officer at Reading Horizons where reading momentum begins. Joining Stacy are Donell Pons, a recognized expert in literacy and special education and Lindsay Kemeny, a Utah based elementary classroom teacher. Today, our topic focuses on the things teachers need to know about supporting students who have or may have dyslexia. Let's get started.

Stacy Hurst:

Welcome to this episode of literacy talks, I'm your host Stacy Hurst. I'm here with my co host, Donell Pons, and Lindsay Kemeny. And we have another great topic to discuss today. Donell chose our topic. So without further ado, we'll just turn the time over to you, Donell to talk to us about it. Set the stage for our conversation.

Donell Pons:

Great, thank you. So we all kind of had a consensus and we're thinking about a topic that would come back around we discussed a little bit dyslexia, that number one reason why someone's going to struggle with reading and thought we'd come around and at this time, approach it from the things that every teacher should know about dyslexia, what are those, what are those basic core things that every teacher should know about dyslexia, because we're going to see that in the classroom. Before we get started on the conversation, and I think it's kind of interesting, just this week, there's a bit of a thing going on in Europe with a couple of members of the royal family of two different countries who have dyslexia who have joined up, and they're doing a conference together, and one of them is Princess Beatrice in England. And the other one is Prince Carl, Philip of Sweden, they have both at different times talked about their journeys with dyslexia. And it's a passion project for both of them to work together on some conferences. So I love seeing high profile, individuals step out and do their part in order to raise awareness and to help other individuals understand dyslexia. And it just shows you the common nature of dyslexia and that it impacts it doesn't matter who you are, where you are, how you were raised, where you were born. Dyslexia will impact everyone can impact everyone, no matter where you're at. So let's get started with this conversation, because it's really interesting. And Stacy, you kind of helped bring us to this place where we framed up what we're going to talk about by discussing the teachers that you're teaching in an education program right now. And as a person who is imparting information to your teachers, where you are looking to say, what can I give in the short period of time that I have to my teachers that will be most useful? Stacy, maybe I'll have you lead us off with how did you decide what to give to your teachers about dyslexia? And also, what about your own background? As the teacher in a classroom? What did you have or didn't have that's also impacting how you feel about what you teach your teachers?

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, that is a good two part question. First of all, the students that I'm teaching, they're pre service teachers. And I did not have the luxury of having any information about dyslexia and my pre service educational experience. I was required to take one special education class, I don't remember talking about anything specific to reading. And it was a really good class by the way. So um, I know that we need to address this. I am working on getting more space for this kind of instruction. So to your point, Danelle, I thought what would be most feasible and I do have Danelle visit my class every almost every semester. So she shares her background experience. I'm talking to everybody else now. Not deed on. Yeah, you've been so gracious to share your experience with your family, and your background and learning about dyslexia and becoming a dyslexia specialist. And that really resonates with my students. In addition, her husband Curtis sometimes joins and that puts the, the passion behind this too. I mean, Danelle is very passionate about it, but Curtis has experienced it firsthand. And that's very powerful for my students to see. So I think it's a combination of actually connecting them with someone who has had that background and experience. And then this semester, I did assign just there's a lot of great resources out there. But I happen to come across the dyslexia in the classroom, what every teacher needs to know. And that was published by the International Dyslexia Association. And so I assigned that and asked my students to respond under that, in addition, I asked them to read the handbook for the state that they would be licensed in, but then also go the extra step and look at dyslexia, at least one other dyslexia handbook from another state, and kind of compare. And so that is one way, I guess, the most efficient way that I have found to address that. I also emphasize throughout my instruction, that the end goal is the same no matter if a student has dyslexia or not, the brain is going to look similar in a proficient reader. So our instruction doesn't need to be drastically different. But we definitely need to be aware of those characteristics of dyslexia so that we can meet the students needs, and that dyslexia is way more prevalent than we know. And so that's part one to the question, I guess part two is that in my own experience, as a first grade teacher, you're just so inept, right, I was doing the thing I was trying to make sure my students were proficient readers. I didn't know anything about dyslexia. At the time, we couldn't even say dyslexia. And I really thought it was just a special ed issue. So if a student of mine had dyslexia, I would have been told, and they would have an IEP and services attached with that. And of course, that was over 20 years ago. So thankfully, we've come a long way. But as I started to learn more about dyslexia, I realized that we owe so much to dyslexia, in the way of teaching any student how to read because it was through those studies by Sally Shaywitz, and others, that helped us to learn how reading happens, but then also how to identify these people who struggle. And then just to add to that, really quickly, I think that emotional aspect of it cannot be overlooked. Because what I found in the meantime, is students who struggle will not always let you know that. And yet, they're having such internal battles, or just struggles because they're not appearing like their peers, and they can go for years with that kind of impact just because they can't read. And we know, we know better. We know how to address that. I also emphasize with my students just to come full circle to that Donal, you and Curtis have been really amazing in helping my students understand this as well. That dyslexia being able to read is not correlated to intelligence. And sometimes the students who have dyslexia would surprise us to Yeah, that's a lot of words done, I'll take it.

Donell Pons:

And I like to other surprising us all the time. And the other thing that is interesting, I loved everything you said Tuesday's, and I really hope that people maybe even replay what you said, because there was a lot in there to unpack. But some of the things are kind of interesting. We do know that we know more today. And I would say that in in many circles, we act like we do better. But unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of classrooms where we're not really doing better. We're talking and saying the things but I don't see a lot changing for a lot of students. So that's something I want to continue to address in the podcasts too, is yeah, we may be saying a lot of things. We're talking about resources, just even having a dyslexia handbook for the state and every other state is fantastic. So I hear a lot of things. I see a lot of things, but I'm still hitting classrooms where their kids suffering, and it's not reaching them in the classroom. So we'll talk about that a little bit. But Lindsay, I wanted to bring you in because you have a personal history with dyslexia. This isn't just a teaching experience for you, which is important. But there's also a personal piece to this, you and I share that I Stacy's alluded to my husband who has dyslexia have two children who have dyslexia and other family members with dyslexia. This is very personal for me as well. Lindsey, tell me a little bit about being in a classroom currently as a teacher, with the background that you have that may be unique as a teacher to have a personal plus a teaching background.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, I'm just so grateful for what I know. Because I think before if someone came to me and said their child had dyslexia or dyslexia runs in their family, that I would have no idea what to do with that information. But but now I do. And so, you know, it's when I taught kindergarten, it was a lot easier for me to spot the ones who I thought were at risk for dyslexia and probably had it I can't diagnose it, obviously, because I'm not a neuropsychologist and and now in second grade, it's a little tougher for me because I don't necessarily know if they just didn't get proper instruction, you know, or other things going on. But I just think, you know, for my son when I heard that word, where we were having him tested and the doctor had said, We think he has dyslexia. I just remember being completely shocked and crying If Wait a minute, I don't know anything about that. And I'm a teacher and how come I don't know anything about dyslexia, I thought it was where you see backwards, which is not what it is. And so that just, you know, that really led me on my journey.

Donell Pons:

Lindsay, I think that's great. And I love I love that all of us have shared, you know, we're willing to be open and vulnerable and share what we thought we knew, right? And the ways in which we thought we were helping, and maybe it wasn't helping, or we assumed a certain group was in a certain place in the school, receiving services for something, all of those things that I think all of us can relate to anybody listening is going to relate to. One of the things I want to touch on that you were saying Wednesday that was kind of interesting to me is, as an educator, you've been in the classroom for years at the point in which someone says to you, we think your son has dyslexia and you were incredulous. What had you been seeing with your son that took you to a place where you had someone look at your son to say what, what's going on what did that he struggled,

Lindsay Kemeny:

I knew he struggled from the time he was in preschool. And because he was struggling to learn the letters, and I was, and I have two older boys are older than him that learns them so easily. So I was really we're doing all the same things. You know, and I'm kind of confused, oh, my gosh, this is taking so much work to have him learn his letters. And I remember going into and, and his speech was a little slower as well. And then I remember going into kindergarten, the beginning of kindergarten, and I was so concerned, like, the first time I met the kindergarten teacher, I'm like, I'm really concerned, he really struggles. I don't know what's going on. And she had no concerns because she tested them. And, you know, he knew maybe half his letters, which, you know, I know from teaching kindergarten, I wouldn't be alarmed with that either. That's great. This child knows half their letters, I have a lot that don't know any. But what she didn't realize is that we had been working on that for two years, you know, and I knew how much it had taken to get him there. But I didn't, I didn't know what to do. Except, you know, in kindergarten, we also found out he had ADHD. So he was diagnosed with ADHD. And that's how he got on, got an IEP and was receiving special education services. But nothing got better. And first grade, he was still struggling second grade, still struggling. And so and I didn't know what to do. And I had asked the district so many times what what do I do? Do we, you know, I didn't even know that you could really do outside testing for, you know, learning disabilities. So it's actually kind of, I guess, off topic, how we found out because he ended up having a seizure. And so we had to go see a not a neuro psychologist, but a neurologist. And so I was asking her, well, he also has all these learning troubles, Could something be related. And she's the one that said, oh, you should go to a neuropsychologist for testing. So that's what we did. And so it wasn't until the end of second grade when he was diagnosed.

Donell Pons:

Lindsay, I love hearing this story, because I know there are going to be listeners who are have had similar stories, or that sounds so familiar to them, or they wish that maybe something had taken them earlier on the journey of discovering exactly what was going on.

Lindsay Kemeny:

And I just also wanted to add because even as a teacher, and I would go into my older my two older boys, when they were like in first grade and second grade, I would go help in their classes. Because I wasn't teaching at this point, I was in a little pause, right, so I could stay home with my children. And I remember just working with the ones that that struggled as had them out in the hall working with them. And I remember just thinking, Oh, that's so sad. Their parents must not work with them. And then I could get an even like, I'm so embarrassed. But even as a teacher, that's kind of what I thought. And then, you know, my own son comes along my third one who I read to him and worked with him more than anyone else combined, you know, and still he he, he really struggled. And so I see that all the time now I hear comments with teachers just being like, Oh, if only their parents would work with them, or their parents don't read to them. And you know what, that is not the issue. And you're going to have a child with a learning disability, no matter what's going on at home, it's going to be really difficult for them to say

Donell Pons:

I really appreciate you sharing that because that's not an easy thing to admit. Right, even though it's so familiar. And I'm so glad you're able to say it and go there because that is something that a lot of people will be able to relate to. Stacey, I'm gonna come back around to you because we're now talking about the classroom Lindsay is talking about, even with her background, what a struggle it was to get to the information. You had mentioned something earlier, when you were in your teaching years and you're in the classroom. You talked about the fact that you had felt at some point that maybe it wasn't even okay to say dyslexia, you that was maybe not something that you could even say as a classroom teacher, talk to us about that 20 years ago, what the kind of atmosphere and environment you found yourself in when dyslexia would come up.

Stacy Hurst:

I love that question too, because that was actually a I was directly told that as a first grade teacher, but then as a literacy coach, sitting in on a lot of it MPs. At the time. Now we know so much more I can look back and I can say, Oh, that was a definite characteristic of dyslexia. I didn't know enough about dyslexia to be quite honest. I mean, talk about being vulnerable. Like I said, I pretty much dismissed it in my early years of teaching, because I thought it was a special education issue. But looking back, now I could just all the mysteries, right, those kids that you're like, what else could we do? Or their parents are working with them every day? What's happening? Now we know the answer. I feel like, but I do remember one particular conversation that I had with a parent. And the student was my student, and he could not rhyme to save his life. Like I remember, in my classroom, I always say things like, Oh, good job, Bob. And my first graders would start saying things like, way to go Joe, and then tap on the back Jack, which I didn't make that up. That was a first grader, so didn't make all the sense in the world. I just remember laughing about that. But I had one, one student one year who just could not he would say things like, that's really great, Bob. Like, that doesn't rhyme. Then now looking back at that, anyway, I was talking to his parent, and she was sharing with me some of these things that I know now, the fact that her husband struggled with reading and all of these things, but I do remember, having just learned a little bit enough to be dangerous, right about dyslexia. So I was speaking with the special educator who was involved with the students, and they had done testing. And he actually she said, Well, we can't we can't say dyslexia. In fact, she said, Don't say it, you can't say it. And now you guys, I just listened. And I'm thinking, Oh, my gosh, I wish I knew more. Because his testing had shown a huge deficit with phonological processing. And so I just remember that whole IEP meeting, not knowing enough about dyslexia, but being so afraid to say it, that I don't think I participated very much at all. But the reason I was given to not say it is because it's a medical diagnosis. And we're not qualified. Then also, it went one step further than my understanding, based on what I was told was that if we said it, then the district would be responsible to pay for services for that, because it was a medical diagnosis that would require more funds. So I was absolutely on that to say it and it really did develop, it didn't help me until leaning into it to figure out what it was right kind of became the scary thing that I need to kind of avoid.

Donell Pons:

I love that you shared that because number one, and I'm gonna read the definition just very quickly. For folks, dyslexia is a language based learning disability. So nowhere in there does it say medical right? Haven't heard doctor yet. Dyslexia refers to a cluster of symptoms, which result in people having difficulties with specific language skills, again, things you're going to see in a classroom, right? Particularly reading Oh, there it is, again, school, students with dyslexia usually experienced difficulties with other language skills such as spelling, writing, and pronouncing words, all things happening in classrooms, right? So who better to know than a teacher right? And yet we took the power away from the teacher, and what the teacher ought to be doing in the classroom is so interesting. And furthermore, not only do we take the power away, but the silencing space, you're not alone in that effort. Many teachers say they were utterly silenced. You know? No, you don't say, can you imagine, Stacy that as the educator has this young student in your classroom, you're responsible for this young student? And you're sitting there and you've been told do not say, the tension, the stress that you must have felt? Can you imagine the parents too? Can you imagine the stress in the room? And then we wonder why these cute little kids were all stressed out, right? And just number one, just getting to the services would be challenging, but just the whole atmosphere that was set up around it, right? The mystery, the intrigue, of even being able to do anything about what is the very common challenge with reading. And just as very interesting,

Stacy Hurst:

and I add to that, that in my years of being a literacy coach, and I ended up doing that longer than I taught in the classroom, I found that when it became a little more acceptable to say dyslexia or to even talk about it, I think teachers didn't know enough all of us didn't know enough to know Yes, who better than the classroom teacher to help identify, but then also who better than the classroom teacher to help meet the needs of that student. And I think that was the second step that needed to happen because once my teachers heard, oh, this student has dyslexia and we did have one student when I was a literacy coach. I don't know that this was very prevalent because they had gone to a neuro Psych and been diagnosed with dyslexia, so they came to the school with the diagnosis already. But then, because we didn't know enough, it was easy to say, for the teachers to say, well, then that kid can't learn to read, it won't matter what I do. Right, he has dyslexia. So I think that's another layer when once we know more about it and can talk to it, I really do feel like who better qualified than the classroom teacher who's knowledgeable about what needs to happen to be the frontline to address it.

Narrator:

Get all the resources discussed during literacy talks, podcast episodes, and stay up to date about webinars and other special events from Reading Horizons, go to reading horizons.com/literacy talks and subscribe to our podcast digest. So you're always in the know about everything literacy.

Lindsay Kemeny:

So something you said Stacy, like, just brought this up to me, because sometimes it's hard for me as if this is coming from a parent. When I tell a teacher that he has dyslexia, sometimes then it kind of backfires. Because then they think, Oh, well, then. Okay, so whatever I do, you know, he, he has trouble learning, so I'm not gonna make a difference. He can't learn. He can't learn to read, you know. And so that's so frustrating, because yes, like, we have all these accommodations. And yes, please do those accommodations. But also please teach him and yes, he can still learn. And if you could see, you know, we found out my son had dyslexia, the end of second grade, and we started tutoring right away with someone who knew about dyslexia because I didn't. And, you know, I my biggest regret, I think I've said it before, it's we were only doing twice a week. So it wasn't making a huge difference. But at the end of third grade, I had had my own training, and I decided to work with my son every day and provide intervention. And you guys, I just have to say, I mean, and he's severe. So he's very severe dyslexia. It was third grade, he was probably more on a kindergarten first grade level. And just yesterday, I progress monitored him. And he's in sixth grade now. And he read 140 words per minute, with 100% accuracy on a sixth grade passage. And I just like cried happy tears last night, because, you know, I was just so excited the benchmarks 120 On this test. So he was, you know, just right there and a little above, and I was so excited. They can learn to read. And that's like my whole point he has to severe dyslexia, he can still learn to read.

Stacy Hurst:

Lindsey, I think that cannot be emphasized enough. And that is the thing that resonates with my students. In fact, danos husband Curtis said it. He was sharing about how he learned how to read and that now on dyslexia screeners, he doesn't even show up as dyslexic. But I think it's important that we dispel a myth that you can cure it, you can't cure dyslexia. It's not a disease. And so you can't cure it. But to your point, Lindsay, I think it's so empowering for teachers to know students can't with dyslexia can learn to read, they can be proficient readers,

Donell Pons:

you know, and Stacy to that note, Lindsay, I'm I'm at the more the end journey of where you're at. I'm just going to say to I applaud you because I know the hours that are involved as a parent of a child who has dyslexia, and he actually has the three days dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, the math disability, I wish we had time to talk about all of those as well, and we don't do enough. So I know the journey, I appreciate the journey. And my son is at that end part of it, where he's heading into college. And I have to say, when we sat down to do some updated neuropsychological testing so that we could get evaluations for college, the individual who did the testing said to me after, I'm really glad you told me that he has dyslexia because I don't know what you guys did for reading, but I applaud you. And I was like, Oh, I mean, that's really what you want to hear. But the other thing is, I welled up with tears, because I thought that represents so much work. I mean, it was worth it. What else am I going to do, right? But that's the other piece that I think we need to be careful about is even though we have all of these resources, and it's like you say so much better than it used to be, we do know what to do and did all the things to do on it. And the way to teach. We know it's on a continuum. So we know as Lindsay says her son is more severe, it's going to struggle more. I have a daughter who was more mild, it took a lot less intervention. We did all the wonderful things, and she got going and on her way. I had a son more severe, it took a lot more of the things to get us moving. So that's the other thing we need to be aware of as teachers and as parents and to provide the support all along the way for the students who look very different in setting states do you have something to say

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, and I'm saying this from a teacher perspective about parents. Because I think that if we're not careful, we can make parents carry the brunt of this, right? I've just talked to parents who walk away from an IEP meeting, even when we have said that were dyslexia that just have so much guilt, or just confusion. And you said it to Lindsey, my third child, I read to him more, I did more with him. So immediately, they take it on themselves, what did I do wrong, right. And I think as educators, we can be really sensitive to that, and find good ways to help them. No, this is not you. But then also, as a profession, my hope is that sooner than later, we can look at that parents, they don't worry about it, we've got this, we've got this, you enjoy your time with your child at home after school, you don't have to do all of the work the blood, sweat and tears, we've got this.

Donell Pons:

Well, Stacey, I would love to be a part of that day. You know, as is, I think something important that you've brought up is also providing parents with resources and support, select decoding, dyslexia, wherever you live, now, they're everywhere. But the Decoding Dyslexia groups in whatever state you're in ours would be, you know, the name of our state are great groups, because there are parents there who can help you and getting together, we've been such great resources, not just providing things to do in places to go, but a shoulder to cry on when you need to, you know, someone to hear you out about an IEP meeting someone to go with you to an IEP meeting. So because oftentimes, we have individuals who are trying to go with you, that are associated with Decoding Dyslexia. So that's important, Stacy, like you said, is to also provide support to the parents. And then the other thing I want to kind of bring up too, and Lindsey, you can speak to this as well. And then I know we've got to wrap up, we could do this all day, it's really good. We might have to do a two parter. But one of the things we wanted to be sure to mention is, when a parent does hear, either, you know, a teacher says I'm seeing some things, there are some red flags that whatever the wording is for your handbook in your state, because that is in that handbook, whether the warning is red flags, I think your student has a lot of these red flags, let's check them to see it's you know, the red flags are for dyslexia, you're bringing up that that word, sometimes teachers are concerned that the parents are going to be really devastated or unhappy or pushed back on that. And I know that we can have different reactions to things. I think I'm unique as an individual who's never had that happen, not once and I've had to say how this conversation, I can't tell you how many times with parents, I think the reason is because of my personal background, being able to connect that way. But I always start that conversation out with, we have a name for something that is not your child. But it's something that we're going to deal with in order to get to reading. And that's what I want you to know. And the minute we can put a name on it and move it over here, then your child gets to just be who they are. That's who they are. Right? Then we move it over here. Otherwise, they run the risk like my husband did, of thinking that they are not very bright, which was the name that he put on himself. I'm not the smartest kid, I don't really know how to do much. I'm not good in the classroom. He had all kinds of phrases and names for why he was struggling. And once he was able to say dyslexia and said that he was it was freedom, really to be able to say this is dyslexia, not me. And Lindsey, I think you've got something to say about that, too. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, it was such a gift to me when I heard that word, dyslexia. I mean, it's hard to say that at first, it sounds like what, but that's where I found so many answers. And that's where I was able to, you know, get direction for how to help my son. And so, you know, initially, I just assumed that every parent would be the same way. And I have had parents where I bring up, and of course, I can't diagnose it. So I'm always very clear, like, you know, he's showing signs of dyslexia. And I'm always like, I can't diagnose that. But these are some red flags. And I've had parents be so grateful for that. But then I've also had some experiences where they get upset, and they get offended. And it's really, it's sad, because it's made me a little more hesitant to say, and I try to, you know, be careful how I word things. Or, or then they say, Oh, well, his teacher says he has dyslexia. Well, I didn't say that. I said, you know, he had the signs of dyslexia, so Oh, it's just made me like, sometimes question. Oh, can I tell them Can I not tell them but I want to tell them because as a parent, it was so huge to me, you know, so it's just a challenge that I think we face as teachers because we're always the bad guy. A lot of times,

Stacy Hurst:

teachers don't have enough to deal but yeah, I've seen it go both ways, too. And experiences I've had and teachers who have flat out refused to tell parents because they know they're not going to take it well. And at the end of the day, we just have to keep in mind what would be best for this student.

Donell Pons:

Yes, apps salutely And the more information that we have, the more empowered that we feel right, and the more confident that we feel with what we're saying. And like to say, sometimes somebody might have a bad reaction. Generally, though, I think you've started a journey for somebody, maybe they weren't quite ready for the journey where they're at, right, but down the road, so somebody had to be the first one on the journey. And maybe that was you, maybe the experience wasn't so positive, but somewhere down the road, they're going to have a better experience with that. And they'll probably remember that you were the first person to do that for them, too. And that the reaction at the time, they weren't quite ready to hear the information, right. So we know we got to wrap this up. I could do this all day, as we said, but we're getting to that time where we need to wrap it up. But just bringing it around full circle, where we started the conversation. And what we started talking about was this piece of information from the International Dyslexia Association on their website that's called dyslexia in the classroom, what every teacher needs to know. And how important this resource guide is, it's about 14 pages. And every page is just really good, valuable information on the basics of dyslexia, walks you through as an educator, if you feel you don't have enough information, this is a great resource. And then also the handbooks, right? Dyslexia handbooks in each state, whatever yours is to make sure you're familiar with it as an educator, and then just the journey, remember, you're on a journey, remember to be kind with yourself and those around you, right, we're all on this journey together. And that we do have resources, and we are getting better. And that's the direction we're gonna see ourselves head in and are positive. Right, that's fantastic to hear that kind of news. So Stacy, I think we're gonna wrap up, do you have a good wrap up for us, you are leading in our wrap up? Nothing,

Stacy Hurst:

that would end up on a bumper sticker. But I will say again, that resource is really good. And just to wrap it up with an anecdote, my students, as I mentioned, I assigned that to them, and I had them respond to it. And this happens every semester, they become aware on a level that I you know, my students, I don't think teaching college would be statistically too much different. I do have students in my classroom who are for the first time realizing that they probably have dyslexia, and that they had this guilt and shame going through school because somehow they weren't able to learn to read like their peers were. And as a teacher, they wouldn't have noticed that because verbally, they're very smart, very articulate. And so I think we almost can't be too aware. I also would just like to say it reiterate what you said, Darnell, I, we do know, we're all in this together, we have resources. And even if you're a teacher listening to this, and you have a student that's in that situation, and you're hesitant to tell their parents are hesitant to know how to meet their needs. Reach out, we have resources, email us. I know some really qualified people. Don't Ellen Lindsey, mostly, that can help you or lead you to resources. Nobody, whether you're a parent, a person with dyslexia or a teacher, we don't have to do this alone anymore. That's the good news. Yeah, hey, let's do this. And then like you said, don't know we can talk about this a long time. So we'll probably have more episodes related to this topic. But thank you all so much for joining us in this podcast journey, but also this particular podcast. And we love to hear from you and your experiences, so feel free to reach out to us as well. And until next time, thank you for joining us.

Narrator:

Thanks for listening to literacy talks, the podcast series for literacy leaders and champions everywhere. Literacy talks comes to you and your colleagues from Reading Horizons, we're reading momentum begins. Visit reading horizons.com/literacy talks often for resources, ideas and great literacy learning conversations. Subscribe to Our Podcast digest and you'll always be up to date on all things literacy. See you next time.