Pop some popcorn. Find a comfy couch. Settle in and listen to this episode of Literacy Talks as our terrific trio shares a lineup of films about literacy. From The Right to Read to Blame It On Gutenberg, there are new and now classic films about the critical importance of literacy that you’ll want to watch. In this episode, our trio shares their responses to the movies and why they believe it’s important for educators, parents, students, and the community to see them. From sparking meaningful discussions to deepening our shared understanding of the struggle people face when they cannot read, these films build awareness, encourage activism, and reinforce every educator’s role in ensuring all children can read.
Subscribe to our Literacy Talks podcast digest and never miss an episode! We’ll send you summaries of every session, links to the resources discussed on each show, and some extra goodies so that your learning never stops.
Subscribe to our podcast digest.
Download the new Reading Horizons Discovery Product Guide.
Access the show notes.
Read the transcripts.
Pop some popcorn. Find a comfy couch. Settle in and listen to this episode of Literacy Talks as our terrific trio shares a lineup of films about literacy. From The Right to Read to Blame It On Gutenberg, there are new and now classic films about the critical importance of literacy that you’ll want to watch. In this episode, our trio shares their responses to the movies and why they believe it’s important for educators, parents, students, and the community to see them. From sparking meaningful discussions to deepening our shared understanding of the struggle people face when they cannot read, these films build awareness, encourage activism, and reinforce every educator’s role in ensuring all children can read.
Subscribe to our Literacy Talks podcast digest and never miss an episode! We’ll send you summaries of every session, links to the resources discussed on each show, and some extra goodies so that your learning never stops.
Subscribe to our podcast digest.
Download the new Reading Horizons Discovery Product Guide.
Access the show notes.
Read the transcripts.
Hello literacy leaders and champions. Welcome to literacy talks the podcast series from Reading Horizons dedicated to exploring the ideas, trends, insights and practical issues that will help us create literacy momentum. Our series host is Stacy Hurst, professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor at Reading Horizons where reading momentum begins. Joining Stacy are Donell Pons, a recognized expert in literacy and special education. And Lindsay Kemeny, a Utah based elementary classroom teacher. Today's episode takes us to the movies. That's right. It's a look at new and now classic films that explore the personal and systemic impacts of what happens when children and adults cannot read. It's an information packed heartfelt episode you won't forget. Let's get started.
Stacy Hurst:Welcome to this episode of literacy Talks. My name is Stacy Hurst. I'm your host and I'm joined by Donell Pons and Lindsay Kemeny, as I am for every episode, where we get to talk about topics related to literacy from our perspectives, or different perspectives, I should say, today, we get to go to the movies. Our topic today is a conversation about some movies that have been released recently, and maybe a little bit in the past about reading. So the movies we're going to talk about today, I'll just briefly introduce them. And then I'll ask you some questions. And we can just discuss. So we're going to talk about a movie called The Big Picture, Blame it on Gutenberg, The Right to Read, and The Truth About Reading. So we'll start with the big picture rethinking dyslexia. And I think this was the one that was the oldest of those four movies. I'll read the description. And then I'll ask you guys a couple of questions. By the way, Donell, Lindsay, you haven't said anything yet, because I've been talking the whole time. Have you seen all these movies?
Donell Pons:Yes.
Lindsay Kemeny:I haven't seen that first one you mentioned.
Stacy Hurst:Okay. So that that one is called the big picture. And it is by the director James Redford. And if the name Redford sounds familiar to you, that is because he is Robert Redford's son. Donell, did we decide this was filmed in 2016 2012 2012. So even before that, okay, so here's the description. A dyslexic high school student pursues admission to a leading college a challenge for a boy who didn't learn to read until fourth grade, additional accounts of the Dyslexic experience from children, experts and iconic leaders at the top of their fields. Help us to understand that dyslexia, a persistent problem with learning to read can be as great a gift as it sometimes is an obstacle. So Donell, since you've seen this movie, start with some of your takeaways from the film.
Donell Pons:So I kind of have an interesting history with this film, because I was aware of it and watched it when it came out in 2012. And not a lot of people had, I think the movies that are coming out here in within this last little bit, are getting a lot more traction than that film seemed to get at the time, it seemed like you could go a long ways, talking to folks in the reading world. And not many of them were talking about the film, Nor had they seen it. And it seems like it is more of interest to be involved with social media pieces revolving around reading now seems like anyway, to me, but I could have been wrong. But that's kind of how it felt to me is that there were a lot of folks who never did talk about seeing the movie, and it was very good. It was kind of interesting, because I think in the movie, and as you say, the director is the son of Robert Redford. And unfortunately, he passed away not too long ago, very young, from cancer. And so the filmmaker is no longer around his son who has a focus in it when you talk about here's a young man that has dyslexia that they focus in on it's his son. And it's a really interesting, it's very interesting to watch because it shows very much that disparity between folks who have access to resources and what their experiences with dyslexia, versus folks who don't have access to resources and their experience with dyslexia. So you get to see that disparity plus it also lets you in on, even if you have resources, it's still really hard. Look how difficult this is even with many, many resources. you're struck by that.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, and one thing that I think struck me about this movie and Donell I heard about it because of you. Otherwise, I don't know how he would have heard about it. And you and I had had the conversation and Lindsay And we were talking about this topic last week that this actually was released before Emily Hanford drew our attention nationally to the issue of illiteracy. And so I would recommend any of our listeners and YouTube Lindsay to watch it. I'm trying to remember where I watched it. I think it's just online. I don't know.
Lindsay Kemeny:It's online, but you do have to pay. It's like you have to pay to either rent
Stacy Hurst:or Netflix. Yeah, that's likely, but it is well worth it. Also, given the fact that it was 2012. So you sit down. Oh, that's more than 10 years ago. And now I'm a little discouraged.
Donell Pons:I know it is discouraging, at the time to with his name to consider, you know, Jamie Redford's background and the resources that he would have. It seemed difficult to find groups that wanted to host the movie and then have a discussion, which is the best scenario, right? You want folks to see it, and then discuss it and kind of mobilize so then what do we do about it? And that was really seen very challenging and difficult to get off the ground. He also Jamie's wife is an educator. Yeah, at the time she was teaching right in public school. So she brought that dimension, a background as well. And again, really challenging. It seemed like to get a conversation to begin and continue on the subject.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, interesting. Okay, so that we can include Lindsay in the conversation. Lindsay, did you watch blame it on Gutenberg? I did. Okay. Awesome. Good, good. Okay, now this one just to set this one up. It is funded created by the Joseph James Murali Legacy Foundation. And I know you're quite familiar with this. So would you mind telling us about the foundation?
Donell Pons:Well, just that the Joseph James Murali foundation is actually a group that was put together to honor a young man named Joseph Murali, who was in college, when he his life was taken very tragically in a car accident. And at that point in his life, this awesome young man had had finally been able to put a lot of the pieces together as to why he had struggled in school, very bright, young man, otherwise, very bright, exceptional would have been able to do whatever he wanted to do. But the challenge and difficulty had always been based in dyslexia. And he had never really received a solid diagnosis with excellent resources and the support in order to really flourish in the education system. And so it was a very difficult journey for him to get the resources that he needed. And then he finally makes it to a university program in Montana, where he's flourishing and doing his best. And unfortunately, has this tragic accident occur. So to make sense of meaning out of what is otherwise a very difficult thing happens in life. This foundation is put together by his family. And they provide a very meaningful resource in terms of a scholarship for students who want to go to college in the STEM field, who have dyslexia. And the scholarship started out obviously very small. And now it's gotten very big, and it's across the country. And it also provides mentoring, not just finances, but mentoring for students. And it's become fantastic. I think that this group, has done a fantastic job of trying to get the word out. And so they are involved in many different things in this movie happens to be one where some folks reached out and would like some, some help and support. Lindsay, you probably watched it most recently. I'd like your thoughts on what you
Lindsay Kemeny:I thought it was great. I wasn't sure what to expect, I thought was great. We saw some appearances from names and people we know. Jan Wasowicz is in there a lot. They interview her. Nadine Gaab, who's a wonderful resource. Something that from the movie that really struck me was, I think they were interviewing a girl who was telling about her experience in third grade. And she really struggled to read and what she was so stressed about was that she knew that the third graders partnered with the first graders, and they would go into the first grade classrooms to help them learn to read. And she was stressed because she couldn't learn to read. So how embarrassing would that be for her to go down to work with the first graders and not be able to and I just thought it brought up a good point because I know a lot of us in classrooms and elementary, we partner with other classes which is so great, we partner we do buddy activities we do buddy reading different things. And for me, it was just a reminder that we need to be really intentional, who we pair our students up with, even if they're, you know, in third grade partnering up with first grade list your students from, you know, most fluent to lease fluent and list the first grades the same way, you know, and pair them that way. And I just thought that's just something that little girl didn't need to stress about, you know,
Donell Pons:I didn't know so great. You bring it it up because on the face of it from these movies, you might think, Oh, I don't have a particular interest in maybe people have college age like, say in the big picture. But they're really you go back and you get a lot of information about what it was like to be in the first grade classroom as that student, right? Experiences that didn't go so great in third grade, a misdiagnosis here. And so I think that history and piecing that together, there's something for everyone to find interesting. And to be informed about in these movies, too. I think you brought that up by just your experience, you share it.
Stacy Hurst:Okay about the movie. Blame it on Gutenberg, right? Yes. Okay. Got that part. And the description of that film is that is follows one family, like you were talking about the ending as following the daughter, she's in college. But it goes clear back into her education. And the family actually takes legal action against the school district, which I thought was interesting, too. What else would you have to say about this movie? As you watched it? What did you think?
Donell Pons:Yeah, so one thing I kind of been concerned about, and I've shared this with you guys, I've just kind of dropped it. And I get a little bit concerned in these movies. One, there's there are a few at the same time. And so you want people to keep them straight, because our messages are quite different. So that's another thing that I want to impress on folks who are listening when you watch them. And so you're interested in seeing all three, I would even take notes to make sure you're keeping them clear, because they all have a different viewpoint. And they're really good viewpoints, but they're quite different. The other thing about that is there's sometimes some messaging that isn't quite clear about the segment of the population that has dyslexia, and a segment of the population that's going to struggle with really, because they need better reading instruction, but they don't necessarily have dyslexia. And they're not super clear on those messages in the movies. And so sometimes you're walking away with the impression or you could, if you're not really familiar with this reading space, you could say, So do people really have dyslexia? So is that really a thing? I mean, I think that's a question some people might walk away asking, and you shouldn't be asking that question, because dyslexia is definitely a thing. Definitely a population has dyslexia that needs to be addressed. And so I just though some of those messages aren't entirely clear in some of the movies, and just those are some of my thoughts. That'll three,
Stacy Hurst:What I thought was interesting about Blame It On Gutenberg, is that it it did demonstrate the issue that we've had historically with reading instruction in our schools. And I thought it did a good job of highlighting that I also was impacted by the fact that this family had means they had, and it still took them a whole lot of time and effort to get the services their daughter needed. And again, that's not to say anything of this students who would have benefited from that quality instruction that did not have dyslexia. Although they do mention the statistics in that movie as well. Timeline wise, that movie was interrupted by COVID, I believe. And so you will see some shots in there of students in masks. And then you can see that they kind of created that over the time. It's a one hour movie that's available free online. And Lindsay, you hadn't seen that before? What's something else that stood out to you?
Lindsay Kemeny:Yes, um, well, that story of the girl in third grade that really hit me. And then I was just point out. You know, maybe something incorrect that they had stated was one of the people that are interviewing a teacher, I think that sight words are words that you can't sound out. And I'm like, oh, no, exactly. And we've had a podcast on that before, so I don't need to get into it. But anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there. And if you're not sure about that, go back and listen to our, our episode on quote, unquote, sight words. Right. So yeah, I
Stacy Hurst:did notice that too. And I just thought, yeah, we're all in that grace. Period. Right? Yeah. We're all still learning, actually. Yeah. When the movie was filmed, probably just solidifying that information. I don't know.
Donell Pons:Yeah, I do want to emphasize Lindsay, I'm really glad you brought that up. I was hoping I wouldn't have to be the only one to notice it. But hey, be careful to when you watch these movies. Because there are things that isn't the only one but thank you notes. That's a point that are not entirely accurate. And so you also want to be checking yourself like if something sounds inaccurate to you, you know, follow that up. Follow up your instinct when when you hear something if that's if that's not entirely accurate. Yeah. So remember, these are filmmakers and this is one of the filmmakers even admitted when I went to one of the the screenings for the movie The filmmaker was there in the filmmaker said I chose this topic because I had a great protagonist. So you have to remember that not because I'm a reading expert or I'm really into reading, knowing everything there is to know in the science behind reading it was because this is as a story with a great protagonist. And if you want a story that will grab you, then you just choose someone who struggled with reading in the American school system and you will have a story.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah. And as documentaries, they really are snippets of what really is right. So they're capturing all levels of knowledge and information and perspectives. One thing about that movie too, which I found really interesting, it really grabbed me from the beginning, is that it teaches us a little bit about the history of reading. And I thought it did it in a very concise and engaging way. So just talking about the history of the printing press, and how it came to be, I thought it was really interesting as well. Another thing I noticed about those first two movies we've discussed, and mainly because I've seen the next two are going to talk about as well. But it really did make starkly obvious a class and race issue as well, because these two movies are very, for lack of a better word white, right, most of the students who are struggling, that were highlighted.
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Stacy Hurst:The next movie is called The Right to Read. And that is by the filmmaker Jen Mackenzie was the director. It shares four stories, an NAACP activist who I'm sure most of us know Kareem Weaver, a teacher named Sabrina Kazi, who teaches in California and to American families. And the description movie says that those families are fighting to provide their youngest generation with the most foundational indicator of lifelong success, which is the ability to read. And then it does highlight some statistics specific to ELL students, black populations, American Indians, Alaska Natives, um, highlighting that 50% and 57% of those populations are reading below grade level. So I thought it was did a really good job showing those children from families of incomes that are lower, and schools also that have a high level of
Lindsay Kemeny:poverty. LeVar Burton shows up in that one. That's kind of fun. If you watch Reading Rainbow back in the day. Yeah,
Stacy Hurst:who's gonna break into song?
Donell Pons:Butterfly in the sky!
Lindsay Kemeny:You don't have to take my word for it. Yeah.
Stacy Hurst:Exactly. So talk to us about this movie. Lindsey, what did you think? Where did you see it? What
Lindsay Kemeny:I saw this first time? Well, I caught the end of it. At the reading league conference in October, Darnell and I our flight had just got in and we came and we just kind of saw the tail end of it. And then it was available for free a couple weeks ago. So then I watched it then. So it's a great movie. It's fun to see teachers in there using the Reading Horizons method. That's kind of fun. And I think cream Weaver does a fantastic job. In fact, Darnell and I talked to him briefly at plain talk a couple of weeks ago, like we were walking by, and I was like, I don't know. That's, that's crazy. That's crazy Weaver, you know, and we walked by, and then he kind of turned and walked after us. And so we're going up the escalator and he was right behind us. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, should we say something? And you know, Donell being cool. But like, oh my gosh, so I just turned around. I'm like, Hey, Kareem. Liked your movie. It was great, you know, but then he was so nice. And he was talking to us, and he was great. So anyway, so it was fun. But yeah, it's good movie.
Stacy Hurst:Darnell, what would you say about this movie?
Donell Pons:Yeah, so I got to see it again, as Lindsay said, the the tail end the first time and I got to see it fully, just a little, maybe last week. And it was in a screening with the director there as well. And then the director did a little q&a on stage with Doug for breezy over radio, West Utah zone radio West. And they did a little q&a on the stage. And that was interesting just to hear the questions that were asked. And that's where Jenny MacKenzie talked about how the movie was essentially about this great protagonist, right. She's making a movie about a great protagonists. And also the civil rights message was key was critical. And we need that so that's the other thing is these movies may have Yes, and things they repeat and some overarching themes, but they also bring up different aspects that are very important and this is one of those is civil rights aspect to the right to read. And then also in this one, Emily Hanford is featured as well. And as Lindsay mentioned, Kareem Weaver, who does a lot with the NAACP in Oakland, California and literacy is the big push. It was interesting because when Kareem spoke at this plane top conference that we were at, he did say to everybody who was sitting in his session, you know, you can join the NAACP and you don't have to be black. And I thought that was really interesting, and put a call to arms and a call to action. And why not? Why shouldn't we be joining arms in any way that we can to combat this literacy challenge, right. So there's yet another group we can link arms with, and let's move forward together and see if we can't get things to change and be different for all of our kids, right for every kid
Stacy Hurst:agreed. And I think this movies specifically did a really good job of representing all angles, that parents they had teachers, they had Kareem, who is, you know, has been a teacher and is now actively trying to change that landscape. I thought they did a good job of representing all that. Another thing I liked to see in this movie was the scenario they shared relative and specific to the south as well. So they covered literally kind of from coast to coast. Essentially, we're talking about California. And then also, Tennessee is where the other family, I think there were the Adams staple family. And they ended up in Tennessee, which is where the Reading Horizons method was being used in the classroom, we noticed that the first time we sat as well, and I liked that too, because teaching literacy in the south is different than teaching literacy somewhere else. And you know, as it is, from Ohio to Indiana, I'm sure it's different. But it was nice to see that too. I thought it did a good job of showing all those perspectives.
Donell Pons:And one thing I thought interesting, I did mention Emily Hanford, you know, I'm assuming because her name is everywhere, ubiquitous with this reading discussion. But if you aren't familiar, she has a series of podcasts. She started working on this a few years ago, and then most recently has a series of podcasts, Sold A Story, on if you want to know the full story about how did we get here with the poor literacy scores that we've got. That's a phenomenal podcast to get you through all of that history. But what's interesting is, as Emily really brought the director into knowing about Korean waver from her background, so that's the other interesting thing is the way that people are helping to inform that have been involved in this discussion, and helping to inform individuals about here's, well, here's an interesting aspect you might not have thought about. So they're collaborating in that way to in that space, which I think is fantastic, because it's going to take all of us, as I say, to bring this along. So why not? Why not join each other in this very worthy work that we do to bring literacy to everybody the opportunity to really become literate to everybody?
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, and Emily Hanford, again, I think I've mentioned this in other podcasts as well. But when I'm talking about the history of reading instruction, and I'm doing the timeline thing of the research and everything, I insert her in that timeline, because that's when national attention was drawn to this topic. And we started recognizing how critical the instruction that we're giving in our schools needs to align with the research. And she did appear in the movie, we're talking about the right to read and the one we'll talk about next, the truth about reading. In the first two movies, we also saw, they were talking to Sally Shaywitz, I believe it was in both of them. And we see other reading experts, too. So again, I love that we're all coming together to address this. So the last movie we'll talk about is the truth about reading. And we did get to screen it at the plain talk Conference, which is the first time I've seen it. Without saying much about the background of the movie, I felt like and the three of us were sitting together it was I think it impacted us each differently. So Donell, I'm just going to call out, you left the movie halfway through and talk to us about why.
Donell Pons:I did it, it got to be too difficult. This is the space. So adults, and I'm just going to put it right out there with their focus was quite a bit on the adult experience of not being able to read and they follow one individual. And again, this individual is not going to represent a large group is going to represent a very small group of folks who end up being very successful financially, this individual is very successful, upwardly mobile. And his secret that he's hiding and has always hidden is that he's not literate. He's simply just not literate, did not learn to read. And so you kind of follow his story a little bit in working with someone to then become a reader and to learn to read. And that's, you know, great. It's a thread that runs through pulls you in and I can see what's very great for the narrative. It became too difficult for me to watch him and that struggle on screen because I live it every day with my students and I was surprised at how overwhelmed I became. Every time he was back on the screen that seemed like a lot in the beginning. And again, it's fantastic and very compelling. But when you have people who are living this pain every single day and the pain is very difficult to alleviate. That's the other thing. In a movie, it looks like oh, you do these things and their pain is alleviated isn't this great. And unfortunately, for most of my students, that is not the case. Although receiving really good literacy instruction is phenomenal for them. And all of them talk about what a lifeline I've heard that term thrown many times my direction, what a lifeline it is to receive this kind of instruction and ever received, life is still very difficult. And to be frank, when you're 61 years old, and you're illiterate, and you've taken the only jobs that you can find, it's a little bit hard to say, Oh, this is a big game changer at 61, even though it's fantastic. And my students are gracious, and they love it. And they show up in their prompt and they do everything, because they're thrilled for the opportunity. It doesn't change the fact that for many of them, they'll sit back almost every lesson and an equal turns say, why didn't I know this before?
Stacy Hurst:I think that's really important to point out like you have Donell about all of these movies, and probably any movie that we're watching about reading, right? I guess we can dub it the HGTV effect, when you see a half an hour show that totally reconstructs the house, right. And you end up thinking you want to do that. But really the hard work is not shown. And even though these movies show a lot of the hard work, they don't show it all. And I think that was one of my takeaways this has taken years, right, especially when we consider the first movie we talked about was created released in 2012. And here we are 11 years later. And it's still very, very contemporary issue. Lindsey, you talk to us about your response to this movie.
Lindsay Kemeny:I think this movie was incredible. I think the it was like on another level for me, like the director, Nick Nanton is an award Emmy award winning director. And I think you could tell I just think that there was you know, it really showed in this movie and he did an excellent job. I wasn't expecting to cry in the first 30 seconds. And I got choked up at the very beginning. And they just had, you know, these different individuals sharing their struggles with learning to read and just these meaningful pauses. And it just it just kind of like Donell was saying it just hit so close to home. And you could really just you know, because you've you've had loved ones who have gone through this. And then about halfway in the movie, I just really started crying. Thank goodness, we had a friend nearby with a tissue because I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna start ugly crying in a minute. It really got to me. And that's about when doc Nell left. And I'm just like all but it was good. It was powerful. It was it was sad. And it was helpful. Like altogether, I almost think they needed some kind of trigger warning because there's like, reference to suicide and things. And that was just like really hard. But I just thought it was like a beautiful movie.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, I really at the end of that movie, just, I don't even know if I can talk about without tearing up. But I really just felt this impulse to just thank everyone who's working so hard to change this. And you like you said, Lindsey, it is sad. And it is hopeful. And I think it ends on a hopeful note, thankfully, like the last thing that we're left with, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we still have a lot of work to do. But I thought it was a really good way to highlight everyone who is working so hard to change that. And the other thing I feel like with that movie starting out with those snippets from people who were who struggled to learn how to read. And that girl, we talked about this afterwards, Lindsay that, could we call them the Google gymnastics that she went through just to figure out what words. And it was, for me watching that. And I don't know how we would describe it, she would type out a word, put it in Google Click on the pronunciation of it, and then just had to go back and forth when she was reading or writing anything. And you talked about interrupting fluency right? But it made me think, for as aware as we are about the issues around people who struggle learning to read, because of whatever reason. There are so many that we don't see the struggle in all four of these movies, and I did see them all within a span of a couple of weeks. You notice that the extra work that goes into just being able to access text with a meaning that is represented by those squiggles on the page, right? So I thought that was really powerful.
Lindsay Kemeny:Yeah, it really reminded me of my why, you know, it just it just after that movie, you're just like, oh, I want to help these kids. I want to help all of them. I want to help the teachers that are teaching them. I just, it just reminded me of my why why I'm doing this and why I teach.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah. reminded us to the heart, right. Yeah, I don't know.
Donell Pons:Again, it was hard for me, like you guys said, I had to get up and leave. It was just it was overwhelming, it was too hard for me to sit. And listen, I was just overcome, really, even though in the end, as you say, had a positive message. And one of the things that I was fortunate enough to be able to do was within a week later, I'm back in Salt Lake. And I was able to take my husband who I think I've talked about who has dyslexia and has been able to receive excellent reading instruction, so read so differently today than he did all through school and college that he was not able to complete because of his writing. So he's had years of remediation, he understands he's involved in this work, he shows up to meetings, he does his advocacy work, he'll tell his story, if it's going to be helpful. He'll do whatever to help. And so I took him with me into a classroom that is here locally, we drove for about an hour to get to a classroom where a teacher is working with a new product for many horizons that kind of puts all the pieces together, it's to alleviate the work for the teacher. So she can spend more time really doing what she does best. And that is teaching in our classroom and looking at our students needs. And so we're in there, and I, you know, I've got my paper out, I'm going to take notes, and we're into this lesson, maybe three minutes. And I turned to look at my husband to be out to see what his reaction is, because I've seen some really good things. And I'm excited. And I think I'm gonna have to explain to him what I'm saying. But I turned to my husband, and there are tears just streaming down this grown man's face. But I was just overcome signals tears. And so I said to him, I whispered in his ear, are you okay? And my husband said, If I had had a teacher who taught like this, I could have been so many things. And the thing about is, once they've been taught, they know what they missed. And he knew what he knows what he needed. Yeah. Literacy is the heart of everything. That's the thing. This is the subject. This is the subject, we discuss week in and week out. And we have interesting and fun conversations. Sometimes they're light, and sometimes they're heavier. We have discord amongst folks right within the industry even. But at the heart of it literacy is everything. And that's why these discussions are so important.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, for sure. And Kareem Weaver really does. He says so many powerful things. But I think one of the things that really speaks to anybody who sees the movie, the right to read, is he talks about the fact that we're living in the information era. And if you can't access information, it's even more important than it was, you know, a century ago that we know how to read how now I'm, I'm mixing the movies up. But of the first two, I think it maybe it was blamed on Gutenberg. And I don't remember who was talking. But they were saying that essentially, since we didn't need that type of currency clear back in the old ages before print existed, then, people whose brains were not wired for print did just fine, because that was the currency of the time, right? There's no getting around it. I think even with all of the technological advances, we're still going to need to know how to read. So one thing also about the truth about reading, I just funded from the John Corcoran foundation, I just did a little Google search. And I know I've heard him talk before, but I didn't make the connection. He's written the book, the teacher who couldn't read. So obviously, he feels very passionate about this. And he does have something on the website, I just like to read because I think it sums it up nicely. And he's talking specifically about the documentary, but he says it's a dream come true. For me, combining awareness of this issue with meaningful action to fix it. And if that's what we're saying to, I see it as the beginning of a powerful movement that will expedite the progress to 95 to 100% of our society, children and adults being highly literate. We can do it, you, me and all who are passionate about a high level literacy for all. And I really think that was made evident in that movie. Everything he just said, was really portrayed. Well, to the point that I felt all of those things. Has I watched that movie, anything you would have liked to have seen in any of these movies that we didn't mention.
Donell Pons:You know, I think that just being clear about the fact that there is a segment of the population, right, because that was the thing that was not entirely clear, that does have dyslexia that because I have a child who has dyslexia who was told so many times that dyslexia isn't a thing and finally, within maybe the last five years, we haven't had to do that anymore. When we sit down and talk with somebody, we don't have to say to them, now he has dyslexia. And it yes, it's real. And I don't want to see us take any back steps, I want to see his whole firm ground that yes, we realized what dyslexia is, we can identify it, we know there's a segment of the population. And then further, we have the students who would really benefit from some excellent instruction. And so we should be getting all the kids excellent instruction, because we're not quite sure who those kids are. So let's go ahead and give on every kid Great, excellent reading instruction based on and aligned with the science of reading. And then we'll have just a few of our kids who will. And we know why we'll know why that struggle is, rather than having these large groups of kids who are struggling,
Stacy Hurst:yeah. And that verse movie that we talked about, the big picture actually did give a really good historical snippet of where we were, with even having the conversation about dyslexia, right. So I encourage you to watch that. And in one way, that is a way we can say, Okay, we've made a baby step in the right direction with that. I think out of all of these movies, I would love to see a movie focused on a successful tier one instruction of a school or a district who has done it, we talk about the 95 to 100% conversation all the time. And we know it's possible. I've read research studies, I've met teachers who've worked in districts where that has happened, and they have their receipts to back it up. I want to see a movie about that. I think that would be fantastic. Lindsay, what are you thinking, as we're talking about these four films,
Lindsay Kemeny:I just want to go along with what Donell was saying. Because, sure, you know, not all students who struggle to read have dyslexia and some might be misdiagnosed. Because as like, I think, I think in the movie, they said this teechia That's just teaching. And certainly, if more of us are teaching in ways that are aligned with the science of reading, more students are going to be reading, it doesn't mean that dyslexia does not exist. And it you know, there, there is still a group of students who are dyslexic, that's a real thing. And they'll always need, you know, a little bit more. So I think it's a great point.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, the the kid in the big picture makes a solid case for that. I really do recommend that. So the more I talk about it, the better I think, and you can't go wrong. I mean, he's the James Redford was raised in the movies, right? It was a really high quality film. So that that's our major plug. I did have in a conversation with Lindsay promised that I would ask about any other movies or books related to reading or learning to read that you guys want to just make mention of and Lindsay, you already have one queued up. So let's
Lindsay Kemeny:Oh, yeah. And another that that, because I just reviewed this really quickly. There's also a movie called Mical M, I, C, A, L, it's like 20 minutes long. It's a narrative. It's kind of telling the story of a young boy and his mother specifically. And it's a true story of Pat Jones and her son, Mike. And they're the founders of Nessy Reading. So probably seen nasty, nasty videos and stuff, and they have a program, it's can be a little hard to watch, because it's really showing this little boy being bullied. It shows some terrible things that you would be like a teacher would never say something like that. But guess what happens? It's you know, over and over, we hear stories of things people have said to these students. So that's great. And a book, I'd recommend Fish in a Tree. I don't know, we're kind of out of time. So but it is I just think every single person, teacher, parents student should read that book to get kind of a to maybe understand the perspective a little more of someone who struggles to learn to read in school.
Stacy Hurst:And that's a fiction book, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Donell.
Donell Pons:just I mean, you've mentioned the big picture was, you know, a great one that I got missed, in my opinion back in 2012. And I think it needs another shot. And then also the Joseph James Murali scholarship foundation for students who are thinking of and going to college, even if you're in college right now still apply. And it's not just money and support that way and going to college, but also it's a group and a resource of individuals that provide coaching and mentoring. And it really is a fantastic place to receive just validation that you can do this and you meet a group of individuals who are doing the same hard work, you're doing
Stacy Hurst:great. So especially if you're a college student, or you have a college student, definitely recommend a Google search. And we'll include links of course in our in our resources and show notes. Thank you guys so much for this conversation. It was a nice change a bit to talk about movies instead of books and research, but I think these movies share really important messages and really capture what has been happening in that literacy landscape in our Country, we recommend those movies and resources that we're talking about. But we'd also like to hear from you what movies books about reading or learning to read have really had an impact on you and no matter your role in helping students learn to read, and then I will just end with that feeling I had at the end of the movie, The Truth about reading this, thank you all so much for the role that you play in helping our students and our society become more literate. We are going to see great things as a result of all of your efforts and struggles. And we're here with you and thank you again for all that you've done. So we will see you next time on the next episode of literacy talks.
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