Literacy Talks

Season’s Greetings and Literacy for All

• Reading Horizons • Season 4 • Episode 14

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As the saying goes, “That’s a wrap!” This episode closes Season 4 of Literacy Talks. Our listening audience has grown remarkably, and we’re grateful to every educator who tunes in to share the gift of literacy with us and our special guests. Join our trio of terrific literacy leaders, Stacy Hurst, Lindsay Kemeny, and Donell Pons, for a retrospective look at the season’s most memorable guests and topics. From the launch of Lindsay’s new book, 7 Mighty Moves, to our groundbreaking four-part series that unpacks the seminal work on ending the reading wars by authors Castles, Rastle, and Nation, you’ll pick up highlights and nuggets worth remembering.

We’ll also turn our focus forward to help teachers keep the reading momentum going strong in the run-up to and beyond the winter break. In that spirit, you’ll hear some unforgettable and inspirational thoughts about the importance of everyone who teaches students to read. Join us for some joy and affirmation, and watch for announcements of Season 5 coming soon!
 


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Narrator:

Hello literacy leaders and champions. Welcome to Literacy Talks, a podcast series from Reading Horizons dedicated to exploring the ideas, trends, insights and practical issues that will help us all improve our professional practice knowledge and confidence in teaching reading. Our host is Stacy Hurst, professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor at Reading Horizons, where reading momentum begins. Joining Stacy are Donell Pons, a recognized expert and literacy and special education and Lindsay Kemeny, an author, speaker and elementary teacher. Today's episode is our season four wrap up a look at our hosts most memorable guests and topics. We'll also look ahead to help teachers keep the reading momentum going strong in the run up to the holiday break. And in that spirit, you'll hear some unforgettable and inspirational thoughts about the importance of everyone who teaches children to read. Let's get started.

Stacy Hurst:

Welcome to this episode of literacy Talks. My name is Stacy Hurst. I'm the host and I'm joined by Donell Pons and Lindsay Kemeny. And today we are talking about this season. This will be our season finale for literacy talks. And I think we're just going to hit some highlights from this season and some of our favorite episodes and Lindsay and Donell, do you feel like this season kind of went by quickly?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Definitely, I can't believe we're already closing it out. So it's been fun. I just I love doing this podcast because I think it's a learning. It's like this learning journey, I think, for all of us. And it's fun to talk through the things that we're learning,

Stacy Hurst:

going, Oh,

Donell Pons:

well, just It's been fun also to meet people at conferences who have been listening and to hear their thoughts. That's really nice. A lot of times, you know, sometimes we do get to meet and and chat about the topics, but it's been nice. That's been an extra dimension that I think has been fun.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, for sure. So I'll start out by asking you formally, what were some of the highlights that you stick in your minds this season? And maybe maybe if you can choose a favorite episode? I know that's a tall order. Donell, let's start with you.

Donell Pons:

Well, I'm gonna go with my favorite episode was our own co host, Lindsay Kemeny and her book, seven mighty moves. I think it's been a really great. I mean, the reception for the book has been terrific. And I'm thrilled and it should be. But I've also really appreciated the conversations that it started. And just recently, we attended a conference. And I got to see you know, more of Lindsay talking about the seven mighty moves. Although, you know, we've heard a bit about it. And the episode is fantastic. If you haven't heard it, I highly recommend it. But it was really nice, because people you break it down. So well, Lindsay, I mean, literally seven mighty moves, and you go over them, and they are mighty, and they are good moves. And you talk about how what you used to do, versus why the new mighty move is a good idea based on the science of reading. And what was nice is that I talked to some educators who work with older students, and I was able to take the seven mighty moves and help them understand what it looks like for older students. And that was really a fun conversation. So I just think, overall, that was a really great episode. One of my favorites. Oh,

Lindsay Kemeny:

thank you, Donell. That was so nice. Yeah, that is awesome.

Stacy Hurst:

I really enjoyed the Zoom chat, the live zoom chat we had about that as well. And a lot of educators are joined and we're interested. Lindsay, what about for you?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Oh, it's hard. Definitely a highlight for me was Emily Hanford having her on, she's just done so much good. And she's just really helped this movement get momentum, right, this movement into the science of breeding. So it was really fun getting to interview her and, and just hear a little behind the scenes and what she's doing, what she's working on and what it was like, you know, creating those podcasts was really neat. So I that was definitely a highlight for me.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, that was great. I think for me, I really liked the sense of community that I've felt this season compared to others not that we didn't have it, but I feel like we're, we're growing our community and Donell mentioned running into people at conferences and so forth. But I also do really love our live zoom chats and seeing familiar faces and having fun conversations about whatever it is we're talking about. And I think one thing that I've loved about this season to so many highlights, but I appreciated that we've had more guests this season than any of their season. So we also have Matt Burns, that, for me was great. I really appreciated the opportunities to spend four episodes on the paper, ending the reading wars, and just helping to maybe cement and solidify that foundation for literacy. So lots of fun things.

Lindsay Kemeny:

It's, you know, so funny, I was sitting next to someone at one of the conferences, I think the reading League, or it might have been IDA, I think it was IDA. She had the whole, you know, ending the reading wars paper there with her, she printed it out. And she was like, I carry this everywhere. I was like, that was so neat. And that's okay, I need to do that. I need to go print it out. Because I was just reading it online, I think I would love to have a printed copy and carry it around and refer to it. I thought that was so cool. And then I agree Dr. Burns having him. That episode was so great. And we talked about, I feel like so many different topics within that one episode. And it's just so neat having this really smart researcher talking with us. And just getting a little peek into his mind, you know, I would love to have him on again, and just talk to him more. So that was awesome.

Stacy Hurst:

Agreed. And, you know, I recently re listened to one of the episodes because we did a follow up episode where we just kind of recap what he said. But I made the comment. And I don't remember making it. But when I heard it, I was like, That's exactly right. One thing I really value about him is that he is a good researcher by any standard. He's a great researcher. But what I also love is he's got this just wealth of experience and knowledge in practice as well. And I think that's a unique combination. He had years where he was, you know, that he was in the schools. I mean, he's still teaching, of course, but I really appreciated that it was inspiring for me, honestly. And that might be the word I use this some of this season. Because, yeah, I think everything we did was kind of inspiring to me. The other thing I really appreciate the whole point of our podcast, like you mentioned, Lindsay, is that we, the three of us were having all these fantastic conversations on a weekly basis and learning so much. I always learned so much when I talked with you two. But then extending that conversation out and beyond, I think has been really rewarding. And I hope it's been as valuable for the listeners as it has been for us. Donell anything to add? No, just

Donell Pons:

that Matt Burns, he was great. And like I say he does a lot with practice. He understands that everything we have every conversation that we had with him, it seemed as if to me, he was framing it so that if you were in practice, you could get something from it. And I really appreciated that. He does that very well. Yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

I agreed. Okay, so because we always are having conversations about literacy. In fact, Donell and I have known each other longer than we've known Lindsay. But we would always, in fact, I know I remember, I think we knew each other for months, maybe even a year before I knew much about your personal life. But we talked a lot, always talked about reading somehow. And I've always learned from whatever you two are studying or are talking about. So my next question is this, what have you been focusing on? Lately, as we're thinking about wrapping up 2023, maybe looking forward into 2024. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a goal. But what is something that you're interested in learning more about right now maybe reading or paying attention to, that you want to kind of take with you into the next year?

Donell Pons:

Well, I'm going to quickly say that I'm anxiously awaiting a book that I ordered it Stanislas Dehaene latest. And it is called seeing the mind. And apparently he in this book, because he's taught for years. And for those of you who are not familiar with Stan has lost a hand he gets referred to a lot and he's French, so I could be slaughtering that last name. I've heard it said many different ways. He's also received awards at different conferences. years ago, IDA gave him an award and it came in person. It was phenomenal to listen to him there. But he has explained a lot of what's occurring in the brain when we read. And so he's got several books and he also has one on numeracy called the number sense that is really good if you have someone who's struggling with math, but he just really has an elegant way of explaining what is going on in the brain when someone is reading and that's when you know somebody has mastered and understanding of something is when they're able to explain it so well. But this book will be a culmination of a lot of the research that he's been doing along with picture er's that should be really interesting. So he said it's as much a Curiosity Box of, of being able to see visual images as it is words. And so I'm really anxiously awaiting to see what that looks like. But I'm always interested in that. And then another thing that I think I've been kind of doing a deep dive on is looking at how we in education, make a distinction between a diagnosis and a category of recognition in special education where the 13 categories, and then how those two interplay and don't play and how I might be able to have a better understanding of of what we could do to make that easier for children and for parents to access services. So I think I've been looking doing a deep dive in that anyway. Awesome.

Stacy Hurst:

And I remember we heard Stanislas Dehaene at a keynote at one conference was Ida, I think I think it was plain

Lindsay Kemeny:

talk. It was plain talk. I think, closer to

Donell Pons:

Yeah, I think I've heard of several Yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

I don't remember which one. I do think I was sitting next to you, Donell, because I remember, I had an insight based on the way he described something about how letter reversals happen. What's happening in the brain, when that takes place. And as a teacher, how we need to facilitate growing those parts of the brain, helping them communicate with each other in a way that will solidify that concept. And I've never really so clearly understood that is when he was talking about it. i Yeah, that's really great. I did see that book. I think I probably pre ordered it. If not, I'm putting that on my to do list to check. Lindsay, what's something you've been fascinated with lately?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, lately, I've been so busy with my book, seven mighty moves, and just creating presentations around that because I keep getting asked to speak different places on certain moves. So that's kind of been my focus. But I do have my goal for the new year for what I kind of want to dive deeper into. And that is writing instruction. And so specifically, I have Steve Graham's newest, I mean, latest edition of his book, I think best practices and writing struck instruction. And I haven't read it, I read the older version. And so I want to read the newer one. And also I have a book on SRS D, strategy, regulation, something, what does it say? Development, I don't remember. But everyone keeps talking about that, and how there's a lot of research for that with our writing. And so that's just writing is something I want to improve in my classroom. And so I wanted to kind of dive into those books. Now.

Stacy Hurst:

I love that That'll be exciting to hear about for both of you as you continue to learn about those things, and share it with the world. Thank you.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Oh, now we're on the hook.

Stacy Hurst:

Well, okay, let

Lindsay Kemeny:

me know, that's good. I need accountable.

Stacy Hurst:

Yes, right. Which is one reason I love the position I'm in with my pre service teachers, because I do have accountability on that level for what I'm teaching them. So I'm thinking about ways to really improve some of my coursework. And in this small amount of time that we have. But I am I've been reading a whole lot about direct instruction. And a few years ago, I did, I took a deep dive into it. So I have a what I would consider a foundation. But this time through, all the nuances are just so they seem so powerful to me the things that I'm able to add to that, and just how to translate that to pass it on to my students so that they're prepared to deliver instruction in such a way that is going to be beneficial and efficacious. And then the other thing I'm kind of focusing on, which will be interesting, but a colleague of mine, and I get to create some coursework surrounding indigenous people and in our area, and I'm excited to take a deep dive into language and how, like Navajo, and Paiute and how those languages compared to English and what to do to help students really learn the code no matter what their dialect or first language is. So I'm really looking forward to that. And the colleague I get to work with is so knowledgeable so I'm gonna learn so much. I'm just really excited. Yeah, and you know, I noticed a long time ago that well, you know, Julia Washington talks about this, Julia Washington talks about these things all the time, but the impact that dialect has on our instruction, and I think my goal is to help my students become more aware of that so they're not so they are prepared to address the matter. So I'm excited for that too. And then I did order it's it's To over a year old now, but it's the handbook of early literacy development Instruction. And I'm still reading that. I want I'm so looking forward to a break where I could just spend some time there. So, thanks for answering that question, guys. I'm really looking forward to what you're learning about. And to hear about it. It'll be great.

Narrator:

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Stacy Hurst:

Okay, so as we are in all of our settings, all of our students are wrapping up the year, we're kind of coming up to the holiday break. I'm working with teachers right now who are in this situation and kind of feel like it goes really fast and slow at the same time. What advice would you have for teachers tips, something to pay attention to I don't know, based on your experience, or anything you've heard leading up to this end of the calendar year time,

Lindsay Kemeny:

I would say keep the momentum going, it's easy to get burned out. And also just to get busy with all the different holiday things. And I know like in my classroom, we'll have assemblies, and we have programs and all that stuff, you know, in December and don't forget that literacy instruction, and still make sure you have time for that and make an important part of your day. Because they're going to have that big break, you know, and so you don't want to like, that's how I am. I'm like, I don't want to waste any more time. So yes, we're going to have a party and yes, now we're going to do this little sing along, whatever. But still make sure you have time for that good quality literacy instruction, because they're not going to have any for a couple of weeks until you come back in January, right. So try to keep that going.

Stacy Hurst:

You know, I love that. And our friend Megan Kruse, who we refer to her blog, I think frequently, at least I do. She recently wrote, we'll have to link it. But a blog post about that very thing, like making sure that we are still having fun and doing all the the activities that children and teachers like to do, but making sure that we are making best use of the time we have with them. instructionally no matter how you combine that just making sure that happens. I know I've shared that with my students. And I think that is I love that you said that, Lindsay, because that will help me keep that in mind, too. Donell, what about you?

Donell Pons:

Well, I think it's, you know, along the same lines is what Lindsay has already said. But it's maintaining routines, when everything else can be chaotic. And I think our students, at least my older students, as well really appreciate that, that the time that we're together, the routine maintains and there's a sense of calm, and a sense of knowing I already have this routine down and it's not going to change, which is nice. So once the class or whatever session begins, then they know what to expect, because it's the same. And I think just trying to maintain that and a sense of calm, too, because a lot of things can feel rushed. And people can feel like oh my goodness, we don't have time. But I don't let my students know that. And I always I always have something prepared. And if I have to at the last minute move things around, I don't let my students know that I'm having to do that, because they don't need to know. And then I think also, at least for me thinking about my adult students and them talking about the young self in school and remembering what that was like to be struggling with literacy. I think that taking stock mid year, and if there are still students who are really struggling and you have been calling out for help, then send those emails out again, saying we're coming back with a fresh start, I'd sure like to see. And then lists that help that you'd like to see come your way because if I know that there are teachers who have been putting out the word saying hey, I've got a student who could really use and we lose track of that and this is a nice time maybe to take stock your classroom. Have the nice In the things that I've asked for been met, am I still waiting on a couple of things? And maybe this is a refresher and a time to hit the reset button and say, hey, when we come back in January, could we have such and such in place? Might be a nice time to ask.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Oh, that's such so many good comments there. Donell I love that. And even just thinking for me as a teacher, I like her saying that calm, don't let them know, you know, because it's easy to be frazzled. Like, oh, my gosh, we have an assembly I didn't know. But the high school band is coming or whatever, you know, and then a part a, you know, a parent steps in and whatever. But I like that. Don't let the kids No, stay calm. Do the activity, then you're going to come in get into your routine again. So good. And I love that just thinking about that check in with maybe things you've asked for for students. That is great. A mid year check. I love that.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, that is awesome. Great advice. And Donell an additional question for you. Because I know you tutor privately. Do your students, do you typically take a break and aligned with what a traditional school year would? Or do you continue to tutor?

Donell Pons:

Yeah, it's interesting, because I have some students whose parents, their students are so busy during the school year, that then we might see each other every day during the Christmas break. And if that's possible for me, so sometimes I've spent my Christmas break busier than not, and it just depends on the needs of the student. And then sometimes they need a break, right? It's rough, it's very hard. And then sometimes we spend our tutoring time on, hey, I have this big assignment, I need some assistance. And it's a literacy based assignment. And so we might come up with strategies as to do that. So it's kind of a mix of all kinds of things during those holiday season. It's interesting. Yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

that's great to hear. I was also thinking about that break. And because we already mentioned Stanislas Dehaene, but one of my favorite books of his is how we learn. And he talks a lot about the importance of consolidation. He talks about it in the terms of sleep, we needed to getting sleep. So maybe we could tell dangers, look forward to taking naps over the break or sleeping in, right. But I think also one of my favorite things about teaching first grade. And before I read Stanislas Dehaene's book, I really couldn't explain it. And I am an early childhood development person too. But they're really did seem to be with their literacy development. Once that break is over, and they settle back into the routines of class and school, they turn a corner. And it's so fun to be there at that part time of the year. And I really do think that break does help them consolidate all of that learning. And so I would always look forward to that to Lindsay, you have that to look forward to I think it'll be I'll be interested to hear what you observe about that. So I would say I would add to that, too, for teachers to follow that advice and take a break right over the break. Once you've made it to that point. Try to have a restful and relaxing break. And I liked your word, Donell reset. That's a good time to release that. Okay, anything else to add there? Think that this gets great advice. I'm so excited for our listeners to hear what you guys have had to say. I think they're gonna gain a lot from that. So as we wrap up this episode, I just want to read something that was brought to my attention on social media. I'm going to read it and then I'm going to ask you to question and then we'll posit it to our listeners. And let you ponder it yourselves. But this is from Kate DiCamillo, the author of The Tale of Despereaux many other fantastic books. That's the one I was first familiar with. So this is an experience she had recently. She said in the airport last weekend, I was sitting and reading a book, an advanced copy of a novel entitled sandwich by Katherine Newman. And I kept laughing out loud. The woman sitting next to me said it must be a great book if it can make you laugh like that. I said, it's wonderful. It has made me cry too. It's a stellar book. And then parenthetically, she says it really is it will be published in June of next year. So I can add that to my pre order list. The woman said aren't books wonderful. And Kate DiCamillo said I would be lost without them. And then the woman said this. I'm 87 years old, my big sister taught me to read when I was five. So she's been reading for 82 years. She gave me the keys to the kingdom. Every time I pick up a book, I think of her and send her a little prayer of gratitude. And then Kate DiCamillo says this, I keep thinking of this, how wonderful to think of the person that taught you to read to thank them every time you pick up a book. Thank you, Betty DiCamillo, for giving me the keys to the kingdom. And thank you to all of you who are giving out the keys to the kingdom on a daily basis. So as I read this, Donell, Lindsay, who were some of the people that you thought of that helps give you the keys to the kingdom?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, I don't remember who actually taught me to read. I don't have any memory of that. But I have, but I have a memory of who inspired me to read a lot. And that is my dad. He was always reading he encouraged me to read, he would take me every rainy day, we would go to the library, we would go to the bookstore. Anytime we went to the bookstore, I knew I could get him to buy me a book. I, you know, he would always buy me books. So really, I think of him because he really inspired that in me.

Stacy Hurst:

I love that Danelle, who were you thinking I was reading that? Well,

Donell Pons:

so I have to thank my mother, because she was an educator, and she taught elementary education. And then by the time I rolled around, she was a full time mom and part time piano teacher, but full time reader. So whenever my mom could find a minute, she had a book. And I remember that she was so busy. The only times I could find to be with her is when she was lying down from an honor bed with a book that's she'd immediately grab a book. And I remember crawling and putting my head in the crook of her arm and watching the pages turn and pretending that I could read. That's the and I would act as if I could read with her just watching. I thought it was fantastic to watch somebody so absorbed by this read. And I would sit in there and she'd let me that's the best part is she just let me. And then of course, over the years, she spent time with me and giving me books and books were considered a precious gift. And so for Christmas, we would get to go to the store. And we could choose a book. And that was considered this great privilege to get a book of that you could keep in mind, we're the Little House on the Prairie series that I just loved. And then I also remember her taking us down to the library in the summertime. And we had a giant garbage bag, it was those brown bags, and we would fill it, she'd let us fill the book, but the little bag. And the thing was I worried about keeping track of the books during the week because I always had to find them and put them back in the bag to return to the library. But that's she really fostered a love of because I could see that she loved it. And anything that my mother loved, I wanted to love. And so that was really important. And when I married a man who has dyslexia, for the first time in his life, he was having those experiences. So I would take him into a bookstore and he said, I have to tell you that my palms are clammy, I don't feel very good in here, I feel like an impostor, I would take him to the library. This is the first time I've been here. I've never really held a library card. And so those were first moments for him because he grew up in a household where everyone was struggling with reading, including his parents. And so those experiences with books were not the same for him. And he wanted his children to have the same memories I had. And so bless his heart, he participated and allowed that to happen. And he had to fake it till he made it. And eventually he did make it to where now when we go to my favorite bookstore, it's one locally and locally owned. I'll find him in a corner. And he's hanging out reading a book, which is fantastic.

Stacy Hurst:

That is so great. I love that. So in a sense, you helped give him the keys to the kingdom too. That's awesome. Yeah. Not in a sense. Literally, you did. That's great. Yeah, I think too of my parents, and I think we share that in common. My mom did read a lot. She took us to the library. My dad read with me and to me, and I didn't realize at the time that that could be something that's not really, you know, typical, I took that for granted. I'll say that. And but I really is I was thinking the keys to the kingdom. I'm like you Lindsay, I don't remember learning how to read. I'm sure all of those things influenced my ability to be able to read. But one thing that I do remember having a second grade teacher who was particularly interested in making sure I was comprehending what I was reading. I had been put in an advanced reading group where they were teaching me to speed read as a second grader. Yeah. Well, I mean, that would be a really interesting to dive into that research to but the point is, she actually had me, she insisted I'd be removed from that group because it was impacting my comprehension. And she paid close enough attention to know that I was an advanced reader. She probably had a lot of other students in the classroom that no doubt she was paying attention to, but she could have easily just said, Oh, well, she'll be fine, but she was invested in that. But I was also thinking the keys to the kingdom come from authors. I'm so grateful you mentioned Little House on the Prairie. I read every one of those books that I could get my hands on. I remember reading a book about Helen Keller when I was young, the Boxcar Children and we were their series, right that we just get invested in. And I have never written a book, unike you, Lindsay and Donell, I know you written prolific a lot. But for the authors to take the time to write something that will draw a reader in and inspire them to keep going beyond the life lessons, right that you learn from reading and the empathy that can develop from that. So lots of people to think for the keys of the kingdom. And I think I intentionally save that question for last because it gives us a chance to reflect and to be grateful for our experiences with text and all the meaning that it can bring put into our lives. But I also wanted to end with that to thank our listeners, because all of you are daily giving out the keys to the kingdom one way or the other, in your classrooms, in your tutoring sessions, with any reader that you're working with and inspiring. So thank you so much. And back to that idea of this sense of community. We're so grateful that you're there and that you're joining us, you're part of our conversations. So thank you so much. Donell, Lindsay, anything you want to add to our final episode of the season. I don't want people to think the podcast is over, we will be back. No,

Lindsay Kemeny:

it's great. I love that. You know, I love that we have the power to give the keys to the kingdom. That's that's a neat way to put it and it's inspiring. And I just think, you know, all of us listening to this podcast, do that in some way. Even if you're not working directly with students, then you're probably supporting someone who does. So. Thank you.

Stacy Hurst:

Amen. And you know, as we are approaching the end of the year, as you both have mentioned, it can get hectic, it can handle you can have a lot of unexpected things in the schedule. That's the thing to keep remembering that you take the opportunity to continue to give the keys to the kingdom every day. So thank you, listeners so much for joining us for this season of Literacy Talks. And we will definitely look forward to our next season. We have some fun things planned for next season too. I'll just leave it at that but we look forward to having you join us for the next season of Literacy Talks.

Narrator:

Thanks for joining us today for Literacy Talks, the podcast series for literacy leaders and champions everywhere. We invite you to join the science of reading collective, our free community and resource hub so you can stay current with new ideas, free webinars, resources and more. And be sure to visit Literacy Talks online for resources, access to every season's episodes and more at readinghorizons.com/literacytalks. It's an exciting time to teach reading and ensure your students reach grade level proficiency this school year. Literacy Talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where reading momentum begins. Join us next time