Literacy Talks

Big Sky, Big Insights: Highlights from the 2024 Literacy Summit

• Season 6 • Episode 1

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In the Season 6 premiere of Literacy Talks, hosts Stacy Hurst, Donell Pons, and Lindsay Kemeny dive into their experiences at the Big Sky Literacy Summit 2024. They discuss standout moments, including John Maxwell’s transformative keynote and Dr. Tiffany Hogan’s insights on bridging research and practice. 

The trio also covers practical takeaways on oral language, dyslexia, and classroom routines, emphasizing the need for intentionality in teaching and data-driven decisions. Tune in for a reflective look at the conference and a peek into plans for the next Big Sky event.

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Narrator:

Stacy, welcome to literacy talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy dyslexia and special education. And Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let's talk literacy.

Stacy Hurst:

Welcome to this episode of literacy Talks. My name is Stacy Hurst, and I'm joined by Donell pons and Lindsay Kemeny, where we meet to talk about all things literacy. And today we are going to talk about something that happened in August. And Lindsay, you're going to lead our discussion, so I'll let you introduce it. Yeah, we

Lindsay Kemeny:

recently got back from the Big Sky literacy Summit. It was amazing. And so today we're going to talk about, you know, our takeaways and just our experience there. Donell and I went there in person, and Stacy was able to join virtually for part of the time. So Donell, do you have any overall you know, overall observations from the conference.

Donell Pons:

So for me, this conference has not disappointed. This is my second time to the conference, and it was everybody as good as the first time. And Stacy kept telling me how fantastic it was going to be, and it was, it was amazing. And I think the setting is part of why it's so amazing. You're up there in Big Sky Montana, and you're up at the resort, the mountains are gorgeous. You've seen the scenery as you've driven in, and then they have the most amazing lineup of individuals who have come to speak, and I'm sure they're there also because it's a fantastic place to be as well, and it's also a fairly intimate setting. So all of those things kind of make it special.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, I love I noticed right away that it was smaller than some of the other conferences that we've been going to. So I think Plain Talk, I looked back at my notes, and when we went to plain talk, there was 2700 attendees about and at Big Sky, I think we had about 700 does that sound right? Donell, it was, I think 500 the first day, and then a couple 100 more came. And really, I mean, there was a lot of us in, like, all kind of when we're all together in the keynote and every all the keynotes, but when we broke up into sessions, I was really surprised at, like, in a good way, that there was a lot of space. Like, sometimes I feel like you're fighting for a seat, but I'm like, Oh no. It's, you know, it's, it's spacious. This is great.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, I really like the format of it. And we did Donell and I attended last year, and now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know that we did a podcast episode on it. I know we shared with some of our friends from Reading Horizons that went but I don't think we did an episode, but I like the way the format of this conference, because they do what there's called Grand Rounds. So you'll have a topic, you'll meet all together, and then then the individual sessions are all related to that topic somehow, then you come back together. I really like that format. And there were, last year, too, a lot of sessions that you could attend on each of those topics. So lots of options,

Lindsay Kemeny:

yeah, and, like Donell was saying, the setting is just beautiful. You're up in the mountains. Donnell and I went on a hike, which is always Stacy. You know, Donell likes to walk and hike very fast,

Stacy Hurst:

yes, like, I'm

Lindsay Kemeny:

all Whoa. So it's like a good challenge for me to try to keep up with her. And then I, I was a little freaked out. I brought my bear spray. Donell told me that last year at Big Sky, they saw a bear. And so I made sure to have my bear spray, and then we didn't see a bear. But right when we came down after our hike, there were some like, oh, like, some resort workers, people there that were saying, oh, there was just a bear sighting. I'm like, Oh, they're like, right up there, which is right where we were. I'm like, Oh, how long ago? And they said four to five minutes we were up there. There was a bear up there when I was up there, and so then I didn't want to hike the rest of the time. Donell didn't scare she she kept hiking. But I was like, I'm done. It's

Stacy Hurst:

old hat for Donell. She saw a bear last year, and you weren't even hiking right. It was right in the parking lot,

Lindsay Kemeny:

the parking lot. No, okay. And then Donell, did you want to mention the cookie?

Donell Pons:

Oh, I knew we were going to mention the cookie. In fact, Stacy, that's why I think we did do an episode on Big Sky, because I got in trouble for mentioning the cookie. I think because so work out that. To someone who thinks they make a really good sugar cookie, that I thought this was the best sugar cookie, and I've tasted the other sugar cookie, and I'm not saying that other sugar cookie wasn't good, so I just want to say that right here make it official, but I have to say there is a sugar cookie included in the bag at Big Sky. And last year, because I had not had the cookie yet, they said, Oh, this is really the greatest sugar cookie. And I'm thinking, how great could the sugar cookie be? I mean, really, you put one in every bag, seriously? And I tell you, it was a fantastic sugar cookie. And I'm quite the sugar cookie connoisseur. And so this year, my husband attended and had a bag. I ate my cookie and his cookie,

Lindsay Kemeny:

and at first we didn't tell him, right? So I had said because we had checked in and Curtis donnell's husband was parking while we were checking in, so I was said to Donnell, you could just take his cookie right now, and he won't even know the bag. But it's funny, because I didn't go to Big Sky last year, and but Donell had told me about the cookie, so I knew. And so, you know, it's and it lived up to its reputation. I will say it was very good. And then we were like, you know, the whole time, we're like, I wonder if they have any more of those cookies anywhere

Stacy Hurst:

we're getting all the important stuff but right up front it sounds like

Lindsay Kemeny:

so the first day. So the first day of the conference was a little different. They did a transformation day with John Maxwell. And I'm sorry to any listeners out there who are offended by this, but I didn't, I wasn't familiar with John Maxwell before the conference. He's an author. Has written lots of books all, most of them all centered around leadership, I believe. And we also found out that he's a pastor as well, so he kind of, the whole day was kind of structured around this transformation theme. And I love the the definition of transformation that one of the speakers showed. It might have been Dr Nell Thompson, I can't remember, but she's but it said transformation is an internal shift that brings you into alignment with your highest potential. I love that. And haven't we all been on some kind of transformation journey, you know, especially as we're talking about the science of reading, I think we all have kind of this unique and many times similar journeys into this information. But he was talking a lot. John Maxwell was talking a lot about being intentional with your personal growth. And he really credits his success to this, that he is very intentional with his growth. And so I thought we could start by just talking about, how can educators be per be intentional with their personal growth? Any thoughts that you guys have with that, and maybe more specifically, what do you do to be intentional with your own personal growth? Stacy, do you want to start

Stacy Hurst:

Sure? And this is timely. I'm getting ready to start my school year, and so I've been doing all sorts of evaluating. I personal growth could be in a lot of different areas, right? But I do have, I have a system. I actually use Trello app because I've had this system in place for a while, but I set goals in different areas of my life, so I try to be intentional. I will admit that my planning sessions are really great, but then when it comes to implementation, sometimes not the best, but prioritizing, like this year, I'm prioritizing my health over some other things. I am applying to doctoral programs, so that's also a priority, but also professionally in my teaching, just making sure I'm refining my teaching, that I'm not just doing the same thing all the time. And I try to do a weekly reset, review and reset on those things. But honestly, things can just get so busy that you get very quickly into reactive mode or survival mode. So I appreciated the reminder to be intentional about it.

Donell Pons:

And Lindsay, I think something interesting with teaching, particularly and and in the setting of a public school, either in an elementary, middle or high school, there are certain things in which a teacher has to do. I mean, there's certifications, and then there might be updating that certification, and we know right now the science of reading there, there might be education around that, and some of it's. Mandated and required. And I think oftentimes it feels to an educator, it can that a lot of these things are out of your hands. In other words, there's a track set up for you, and sometimes that track may change, and other people are kind of dictating what's on it for you. But I think taking that back and taking control of it as an educator to be okay. So why are these things important. What is my understanding of why they're important? And so what can I do to not only make the most of what is required, but also take it maybe a step further, and what is unique to what I do and how I teach, that it can be found in these materials that I might be able to focus in on. I think that's really important, because a lot of teachers have really interesting sub skills, and that's important to a way in which they're able to do things. Oftentimes, I'd invite a teacher in who had a really great way of doing something. I think that's something we can collaborate on more as teachers, is making sure that we're that sharing of skills and talent isn't wasted. And so I liked this too, about him thinking specifically about the personal growth, because it's also knowing what your personal skill set is. And there was a quote there too that said we must be urgent in the moment and patient about the results. That was something else that he said in there. And I like that. So to do things with a sense of urgency, but be patient about what that looks like. And that couldn't be more said about the science of reading than anything else. So urgent about learning things we need to know. Patient about how I implement Be careful and patient with yourself, because it will take time, and we may make mistakes, but you can always correct. So there's a lot there to learn. Oh,

Lindsay Kemeny:

you said a lot of really great things, both of you. That was excellent. And, yeah, I love that. You know, he really said you need to commit, commit yourself to personal growth. He said something every day, like, commit yourself to personal growth every day, which can be overwhelming at first if you think about that, but remember, you can take it in little chunks and little pieces at a time. And Donell, I love how you're talking about kind of sharing. So think about the people in your building and who can help you. And everyone has different talents, and some people are really good at one thing, and others something else. So thinking about how we can come together, because a rising by a rising tide lifts all boats, right? So I love that. And just, you know, he had said that getting better isn't automatic. So you know, we're there, we're teaching every day, or we're coaching every day, or whatever our role is, we need to be intentional. And I personally like to set certain goals every year that I focus on. Like a couple years ago, I remember it was vocabulary, because I just thought I'm not very good with my vocabulary instruction. So my goal this year is to work on that, right? And of course, you're working on other things, but that was my main priority last year, was writing my writing instruction. This year, I think I'm going to continue with the writing instruction, just because I have learned so many things that I really want to solidify. So I'm just thinking about that. So I'm thinking about that a lot because, like, in our district, we have to set goals, and we have to, like, record them. They have this database that we have to go record them, and then we have to decide how we're going to measure them, and then, like, our administration checks in with us at the end of the year. So I've been thinking a lot about goals, so I appreciate this opportunity to talk about being intentional and not just accidental growth, but think of a topic, and maybe you can dive deep into that topic, find podcasts, find reading, you know, watch a webinar. I think those are all great things. Any other Yeah, any other thoughts on transformation? John Maxwell, day, anything? Donell, go ahead. There

Donell Pons:

was a quote that kept coming up, and it would show up again later, a couple of days later, by some individuals. And it was originally Dr Nell, running the conference, accredited Julie Washington with sharing the quote with her. And then eventually it becomes one of those quotes that you get every day. She has these stickers, and you get these quotes, and they're all over my notebook that I take to the conference, because I like to remember them. But this also, I think, applies to that, that sense of urgency about helping yourself become better, setting a goal for yourself, things you can improve. And there's a great deal of humility in that too. That's required, right? Because you have to see what needs improvement. That's not easy to do. But there was this quote from Frederick Douglass that I think is amazing, and you can apply it so many ways. I set out with high hope and a fixed PURPOSE at whatever cost of trouble to learn to read. Now, on the surface, we're looking at as reading educators and saying, oh my gosh, what a great quote about reading and all of that. But it's also about personal endeavor, things that are very difficult and hard to do, high hope and fixed PURPOSE at whatever cost of trouble. That's those are really important things, right? So in other words, even if it's not easy, even if it's difficult, even if it's challenging, and boy, does that speak to teachers, to a lot of what they try to accomplish,

Lindsay Kemeny:

yeah, it speaks to the dedication, right? It really does take a lot of dedication. I love that and how you because it is I hear that quote and I just think of the reading, but I like how you've kind of flipped that little. Bit to think about the other angle, Stacy, anything else with anything John Maxwell said, or that transformation day, that that you want to bring up.

Stacy Hurst:

Well, you know, I was reviewing my notes from that day, because I did get to attend virtually, and I don't remember the way I take notes. Didn't make it clear to me whether he said this or something that he said made me think of this, but when he was talking about goal setting and making progress, I just there was a note in my note section about just making sure to enjoy the process or the journey. Because if we're too fixated on the end and yet we need to be patient for that to happen. That's an outcome. I think of that too. And Donell is talking sharing that quote. I was thinking about the work our students put into learning how to read too, and in my case, surely my first graders did, but I know my college students can be so much more intentional about putting work in to learn how to teach reading and what goes into learning how to read, but I feel like all of that effort and engagement and focus, if you're enjoying that process, then those outcomes are going to be even richer for you. They're going to be there, but they're not always immediate. So I thought that was a good reminder to me too. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:

And the journey can be difficult. And John Maxwell said everything worthwhile is uphill. And I liked that one too. He had a lot of great one liners that he shared. So, oh yes, Donnell, go ahead. You

Donell Pons:

know, I was just gonna say it kind of reminded me of I've spoken a few times about my youngest and our challenges with dyslexia, and he had the most challenging case of dyslexia, plus everything else. Call him the plus. But it's interesting because now he's in his early 20s, and I have to say it's taken this long. I know there are going to be some folks out there saying, You got to be kidding me, but at the same time, it wasn't, you know, you just do it, you just, you're in it, and you do it. But here we are early 20s, and really, I'm seeing the blossoming of all that effort of work on reading right now. I mean, that's a long time coming, a long time support, many years of intervention, followed by many years of support. And now I have this early 20s young man who blows my mind with things that he finds engaging to read and share, and the connections that he's making. So it speaks to that long be patient for the outcome. So at middle school, I couldn't see it. Freshman year of high school, couldn't see it. Didn't mean it. It couldn't be so that that journey that we've all been referring to, yeah,

Lindsay Kemeny:

okay, I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. And Dr Tiffany Hogan spoke a couple times. Wow, she was excellent. I loved listening to her. And I guess I'll call it kind of a keynote. I mean, it's kind of, you know, it's like that ground, or is it Grand Rounds, or is that when we broke, you know, we're breaking up. I don't know. Anyway, she talked to the whole group about implementation science, and I really loved listening to what she had to say. Implementation science is closing the gap between what we know and what we do. And, you know, you think about that research and practice, you know, putting the research into practice, and how does it look in practice? That's what I think of here. And she said, the science of reading movement will fail if we don't consider implementation science. And I won't say who said this, because I had a friend sitting next to me. I don't I didn't ask her if it was okay, but she leaned over to me and said, well, it has failed. It's already failed, and so we don't want we want to turn this around. We want the science of reading movement to be successful. So we need to focus on the implementation. So what do you guys think about this? And any thoughts on how we can close this gap, this research to practice gap? What are some thoughts?

Donell Pons:

Well, if you heard my heavy sigh, right, because that's the big I mean, we've all been asking this, and I think that we've tackled it in different ways. I think that, well, LETRS for one I mean, isn't that our response with letters is is trying to get that research to practice and trying to make it palatable, right, consumable for individuals in different settings. I think that's the challenge too. And I think long have the researchers recognize that oftentimes it comes in a way that maybe isn't that meaningful for different audiences. So I think that's part of the challenge as well. Stacy, you probably got some really good thoughts on this being the in the education setting, sure,

Stacy Hurst:

and there are a lot of a lot of things I think we could do to close the gap, but the i. So Dr Hogan actually wrote a research paper that she included in the notes for her speech, for her talk. So I read that, and she gave three really actionable steps. There, some are systematic, but others you can employ tomorrow in your classroom, but the first one is to make sure that pre service teachers are being taught what they need to know. Of course, that stood out to me. That's why I'm where I am. To help close that gap. But the second one was to make sure, in the time the space of a school day, that we're allowing time for speech and language instruction whole class as well. So giving credence as early as pre K and kindergarten to the speech aspects of literacy would be really important and make a help to bridge that gap. So the third thing she recommended is to increase research funding, which few of us have control over that, but I personally feel like there's a space for research in everybody's classroom. Lindsay, I know you were, you were implementing some practices that you kept data on, and then you shared out about that. We need to be doing that as teachers. I'm hoping my future, my pre service teachers, will learn to think like that, think scientifically, and really start doing research in your classroom with your own students in a way that will impact your teaching always aligned with what we know about the science. So they're really those. I thought were three simple ways to do that, but I know that that's a lot easier said than done, because there's so much a teacher in a classroom can do. And Lindsay, you have all the control in your classroom, right? Or most of it, but a lot of it, these things need to be addressed in systems, so in our schools, in our districts, in our universities. So I think it's multi faceted for sure,

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Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, I just found it so fascinating listening to this implementation science. And I was like, yes, yes, this is what I'm trying to do. And I was thinking, and this is, this is what I trying to do with my book, seven mighty moves, right? It was like, take the research, but then get make it palatable and help teachers like, like, this is how I this is how it's working in my classroom. This is what I do in my classroom. Because you do, you learn about the research, you read these wonderful things, and then then it's like, well, what does that look like? How do I do that in my classroom, with my students, with, you know, times 25 or, you know, however many students you have. And I love that. Dr Hogan said educators are the ultimate implementation scientists. That was just exciting to me. I was thinking, oh my gosh, yes, I am. I'm an implementation scientist. And Stacy, I love how you're bringing that back to the data, and that's just another reason why we're looking at our data to see if the way we're implementing the things we've learned are working, or if it's not working, then we need to change something with the way we're implementing it, especially if we know that it's evidence based, or there's research that supports that, and yet, I'm not seeing the gains in my classroom. What can I do different, right? So, all right. So any other takeaways, like Donnell? Do you have a favorite session that you want to share, or two or a few sessions that you want to share, and what your takeaway takeaways were?

Donell Pons:

You know, there were some real highlights I thought to this conference. One was having doctors Snolling, and Hume attend. And they're from England, so we don't normally get in the from the Oxford sort of ecosystem, and so I don't normally we don't see them at the conferences here in the United States. That was a real treat, having them present here, personally. And I think that was new for a few of us to see them their faces, and it was fantastic. And talking a lot about oral language, and Dr Snolling did a presentation on dyslexia that was very good, very straightforward, very good. And then she was also part of the panel discussion that was led by Dr Tim Odegaard. I thought that was a highlight, too. Was one of these when we came back together sessions, and it was a panel. So. And we had led by Dr Tim Odegaard. And then we had Julie Washington up there. Tiffany Hogan was a part of this, as well as, oh, who else was sitting up there? Well, snowing and Hume were both sitting up there. And cats, you cats, they were up there, yeah. And then they shared some really great information about having attended the scientific study of reading conference, and that there were some, some things that were said about dyslexia that were, you know, old school, let's say, to be generous, that's what I'll say. They're old school thoughts. And it was great to hear how how they handle that at a conference, scientist to scientist, no bones about it. And what I love to hearing that about that too, is that they're willing to step into spaces and defend because that's what it is, defend the stance and to help us on the on the ground. So in other words, there's a teacher somewhere in a school who's going to have somebody say, Oh no, this dyslexia isn't real. And thankfully, snowing has said what she has said, and takes that stance and takes that ground. And I love that. And was so clear and very, very strong in how she said things and we that's I appreciate that I love that that's what we need. That's one of those really positive things coming out of research and having researchers doing this work.

Lindsay Kemeny:

I like something she said because, you know, they're talking about the label, and we've talked about that, you on our podcast before, about the label dyslexia, and she was saying, the positive thing about labeling is it draws attention to the intervention. And I really liked, you know, that she said that, you know. And Lindsay, she

Donell Pons:

said something else that I thought was really good, because they were talking about a new definition of dyslexia. And I did a little blog post that can be found on the Reading Horizons. They put a bunch of things together for teachers, and that's there, if anybody's interested in going further. But it was, do we need a new definition of dyslexia? Because that subject has come up, and what I loved too, is that she was there throwing out some ideas, and said, You know what, if we need many definitions, plural, of dyslexia for different settings so that it provides a more meaningful explanation of what's going on with the student and what can be done to intervene. Because, as you say, Lindsay is the whole point, right?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, and something, you know, I just thought of because I was looking at my notes, so Dr Hogan was talking about implementation science, and that sometimes that means de implementing things. And in that roundtable discussion with all of those amazing experts, something I don't know who said this, but someone said that, many times schools don't de implement because they're they've put so much money into what they have. What do you think of that Stacy?

Stacy Hurst:

I've been on the other side of some of those POS and I know they have put a lot of money into it. It. What is that called in debate? Like, the sunk fouls, like, I don't know there's a term for it, like, the fallacy that you've already invested so much so you can't give it up kind of idea. But honestly, if we have, like, we put the time in ahead of time. That's why I appreciate tools like Ed reports or the reading thing and how they do the evaluations. Hopefully we won't have to be making those decisions in the future based on money. It oh so cost fallacy. That's it. Thank you. Um, yeah, that it will help. Then we know we can upfront, mitigate some of that stuff. And yet there is a lot of money. But ironically, it's not the teachers who are making those decisions in most cases, it's the administrators, and it all depends on how well they know what to look for in a program. Otherwise you are wasting money. It's important to be good stewards of that public

Donell Pons:

and I would add a piece that Stacy, I think both of you have mentioned before, and that's data as well, right? So if we really are keeping good data, watching that data, right, those two things should complement each other, good curriculum, excellent data, right,

Stacy Hurst:

and interpreting it. And I think this is where we can get in trouble when we're spending money on those kind of things, because I know here in the state of Utah, we there was a study that was funded on a specific intervention program, and it showed that students made great progress. But actually, if you look at the data, you realize we don't have a tier two Pro. It was a tier one problem, right? It was students that, though they weren't getting what they needed to in tier one. And I'm not saying that that intervention is not effective based on that, but the way that we we spent a lot of money on that intervention, but we'll continue to unless we fix the tier one, which I'm confident we will, if we have a focus on proper implementation, right? So yeah, there's a lot that's probably a topic for a whole. Or podcasts? That's a good question.

Lindsay Kemeny:

I went to, I have it's hard to choose favorite breakout sessions. There were so many that I liked. One that I went to with Doc was Dr Holly Lane, the power of routine. That's like, I love to go listen to how people present that I'm such a fan. I love having, like, really set routines in my classroom, because then the students, they don't need to think about what we're doing, they just need to think about what we're learning, right? And so I love having these set routines. And it was so wonderful listening to her, and I love a couple warnings that she put in, which is something I think a lot about, where she mentioned that, you know, sometimes you can add a little novelty right to the routine to make it fun, but if you do, it should be relevant to the task. And also, she talked about being careful when adding that variety to make sure that it increases the engagement. And I was just thinking, like the other day, I was just thinking, there is a difference between entertainment and engagement, and so we're like, we want an engaging lesson, and then we're maybe doing something to entertain the students, but it doesn't necessarily up the learning. And I think it's just really like we have to be so careful because we want to do fun things, but sometimes they're just detracting from the from the learning that needs to happen, right?

Stacy Hurst:

I have so much to say about this, but I'll keep it short, because my pre service teachers do it. We teach them the routine for teaching a structured literacy lesson. It's very outlined, very consistent, and like clockwork. About six weeks into this, I can expect from my students, them saying, I think it's getting a little boring. And then I watch their student, their students totally engaged. It's actually boring for my student at that point, because they have it done. So that's the time that I get to say those routines are so critical, and there are ways to be really passionate about what you're teaching and and use, like, a lot of techniques in your delivery to engage, but don't switch up the routine. Just keep it consistent, like you said, Lindsay, exactly, so they can focus on the content, not getting used to some new routine

Lindsay Kemeny:

times when you bring that novelty in, you need to consider the management of it. If you are, if you are a teacher with really good management, and you're still going to be able to get through, like, the blending, the segmenting, or, you know, whatever it is, the decoding, at a quick pace, you know, with everyone, right with you, then fine. But if you pull out the little manipulative and suddenly it's kind of chaos, and it slows you down, and kids are playing with it instead of doing what they're supposed to, then you know, you need to rethink that, or just really tighten up the management of it, right? Because we can have a lot of like lost learning time.

Donell Pons:

And Lindsay, I love that somebody else brought up cognitive load theory as well in some of this, saying that oftentimes you put too many things in front of a student, and the really important connections are lost because of all of the visual information or other things. So that was interesting, too. You

Stacy Hurst:

know, Holly lane will be speaking at our online pre service literacy conference in November, and Dr lane, I don't dare assume that you're listening, but in case you are, I'm just gonna send you an email to remind you to bring up this thing about routines really important to learning. Yeah,

Lindsay Kemeny:

I'm sure she will, and especially important for your pre service teachers, right? Stacy that. Yeah, that's so good. And another session I loved was Dr Leslie Laud she has become kind of a mentor for me this past year, really helping me improve my writing instruction. And so I loved listening to her and something she talks a lot about a lot, which I want to mention, because we talk a lot about how students need instruction at the sentence level, and they do, but does that doesn't mean we have to push off teaching paragraphs or, you know, and passages. We can do those things together at the same time. So I just like that she was talking about, yeah, you don't need to teach sentences alone. We can still be working on our Paragraph Writing, as well as that explicit instruction at the sentence level any Oh, go ahead, Donell, I

Donell Pons:

was just gonna add to that. Lindsay, it's I love that you brought this up because I think the theme of the conference was oral language, clearly, which I thought was fantastic. Sake, we brought that up a lot. It was in many of the sessions. Dr Julie Washington did a great presentation on oral language at the heart of it, and just talking about how important those conversations are early with our students to make sure we're using full sentences to make sure we're having students respond as best they can in full sentences, and encouraging those full sentences, providing a stem if necessary for students who don't have one, not giving up, right, but providing a way in which that student can reach the goal. I loved all of those things, making sure we label things so we're being more intentional with how we point out something, and we make sure we use more words to do so, so the student has interaction with that. All of these things are so important. Again, it's that intentionality, and I love it. But it was interesting because my my son and I got into this conversations. My son with dyslexia, because he loves these kind of conversations. I'll come back from a conference, and we were discussing this very thing, and he, he said, Hey, I'm studying screenwriting. And one of these great screenwriters that I've been studying, he has dyslexia, and he really speaks to me. Boy, does he speak to me. I've read a couple of his books, and the way he does story, or looks at story is just like I do. And I thought that was really interesting. It made a lot of sense to him. But within that, he was saying, we need to rely on that oral language history that we have of telling stories. And telling stories is to give information to each other, and we lose touch with that oftentimes when we go to the written word and we seem to think they're two very different things. And all the way through, anyone who tells a really good story knows it begins with spoken that that desire to tell somebody something and to share and impart information and making sure that we provide that for our students in the classroom. I thought this conference did a really good job with that. In all of the sessions, they did

Lindsay Kemeny:

a really good job like that was such a huge takeaway. Oh my goodness. Language is everything. And Dr Elsa Cardenas Hagan said, infuse language. She said, infuse language into everything you do. And I was just like, oh yes, it was a huge takeaway, a great focus in the conference. You

Stacy Hurst:

of listening, you have the structure of language. But I knew when I was getting my what it was called at the time, el endorsement. We did learn, and I habituated with me to create a language objective for every lesson, no matter what you're teaching. So if it's something as simple as the student will answer in complete sentences, and you're teaching math and you ask the question, what is two plus four? Don't expect six. That's not the answer. The answer would be two plus four equals six. And really helping develop no matter what aspect of language, and you can just choose one, right? You don't have to focus on all the things at once, but being intentional, and maybe that's a challenge. I'm going to try to remember for myself in this school year with my own students.

Lindsay Kemeny:

So, you know, I reached out to Dr Nell Thompson to say, Hey, do you guys have dates yet for next year? So I want to share. These are tentative. They may change, but they're looking around August, 6 through eighth of 2025 so be watching for those dates, if you're interested in going, because it was just, it was a it was a great conference. This is my first time at this conference, and I just loved it. It was excellent. I was

Stacy Hurst:

really sad that I didn't get to go. So do watch for that, because you guys already mentioned it's smaller compared to some of the conferences we go to. So granted, for those of you who are east of Montana, it's a probably more of a trek, but if it's going to be the same venue, did she happen to mention that? Lindsay?

Lindsay Kemeny:

I didn't ask her, but I will get the same venue. Probably,

Stacy Hurst:

space is limited, so I'd say mark it on your calendar and

Donell Pons:

and I just want to add as we wrap up, because this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much. But I didn't want to not mention the folks who helped Dr Dell pull the conference off. She has a great team, and they couldn't be nicer. They are the the picture of calm under pressure, and so friendly and accommodating. And that's something that's really nice about the conference, too.

Stacy Hurst:

Do you know I noticed this from last year too? There's no other word. It's not very technical, but it's such a good vibe, such a good vibe. And it really does feel like you're at camp, or, you know, the best kind of camp, learning camp, with people who are like minded and like hearted. And I appreciated even day one that I got to attend virtually when I saw the agenda for that honestly, at first, I was like, I knew who John C Maxwell was. So I was like, well, that's interesting, isn't he, like, a kind of a business motivation guy. But. But I do appreciate the intent of having leadership addressed in systems, because no matter for a classroom, teacher, parent, professional, we are a leader, the literacy leader, right? So being aware and being intentional is a good reminder, and I'm glad you two and Curtis got to go. We should add Curtis on today, his tape.

Lindsay Kemeny:

It was so wonderful. We bring Curtis and then we send him to the sessions we want to go to, but we can't, because there's only like, one of us. And he comes back and he takes the best notes he'll show like he was showing me pictures of slides that he took. And I'm just like, Oh my goodness. Thank you, Curtis, we need you at every conference. He's so helpful.

Stacy Hurst:

I know I've been I have experienced the Curtis effect at conferences. The other definite advantage, because if you're listeners, if you're inferring, he took my place, because at the last minute, I couldn't go. But he's even better than three of us in that case, because sometimes it happens that we're all interested in the same session, which is okay, but literally, we can tell Curtis which session to attend, and he will just go. He doesn't even say, well, actually, I wanted to go to this one. Oh god, I'm on it. He'll be like, I'm on it. So yeah, I support Curtis coming with this

Donell Pons:

one. Maybe he'll learn a cookie next year. I

Lindsay Kemeny:

was gonna say he doesn't hike as fast as Donell, either. So it's kind of nice we're there and donnell's up like 10 feet in front of us,

Stacy Hurst:

and those are usually our legs are that long. What conference was it? There was a conference Donnell and I were at. It might have been big sky and Lindsay wasn't with us, but I remember texting you a picture in the airport of Donell, who was like a half a mile ahead of me, just again, she walks back. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

okay. So if this doesn't get edited out, which I'm sure, hoping it does, but if it doesn't, there's a Shakespeare quote. It's Shakespeare. I'm probably gonna, I'm gonna slaughter it, but that's okay. It's a quote that my husband gave me, though she'd be tiny, she'd be fierce.

Lindsay Kemeny:

It's perfect. Yeah, racks, Yes, yep, sums you up in a nutshell.

Stacy Hurst:

Hence the advocacy right, among many other things. Well, thank you so much for this conversation, Lindsay and Donnell for taking Curtis with you to the conference and for going, I did have FOMO, I'm not gonna lie. So I already wrote down that date for next year, and I'll be planning on going. I also like the year before. It was right before it was right as school started. That's why you couldn't come Lindsay. So I appreciate the earlier date in August.

Lindsay Kemeny:

It's more teacher friendly this year because we can go, Yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

even though it's close to school starting, it's well worth the time, so yeah, for sure. Great. Well, thank you guys so much, and thank you to those of you who are listening with us today. If you have any thoughts on Big Sky and you got to attend, please share them with us. Otherwise we will expect you or want you or hope that you'll join us on the next episode of Literacy Talks.

Narrator:

Thanks for joining us today. Literacy talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where reading momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.