Literacy Talks

Dyslexia Talks: A Personal Story of Perseverance, Discovery, and Advocacy with Curtis Pons

• Reading Horizons • Season 6 • Episode 6

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In this powerful and personal episode, Donell Pons introduces her husband, Curtis, and his lifelong challenges with dyslexia. Through their candid conversation, listeners take an emotional journey, from the honeymoon revelation of Curtis's reading difficulties to his decision to leave college despite academic success. Curtis shares his experiences navigating careers and finding support, while Donell reflects on the challenges of identifying and addressing dyslexia, both for their family and in the broader education system. 

This episode illuminates the profound impact of reading difficulties, the importance of early intervention, and the transformative power of advocacy and perseverance. Curtis's story of overcoming the odds and Donell's unwavering commitment to making a difference in the lives of those with dyslexia and in education is truly inspiring.

This is part one of the Literacy Talks miniseries Dyslexia Talks, hosted by Donell Pons.

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Narrator:

Stacy, welcome to literacy talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy Talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia, and special education. And Lindsey Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let's talk literacy.

Donell Pons:

So this conversation today is going to be a little bit different, and it's one that I, you know, kind of have in different ways when I speak to other people about why I came to the space of literacy and learning to read, and why it means so much to me, and it really is because of my own personal experience. And what's interesting when you spend enough time in the reading world, around people who are researching and trying to figure out how the best ways in order to teach people to read, why we struggle, you often find personal stories, and that's what really motivates people to be in this space. And so I'm not alone. I know that in having a personal story as to why working in this reading field is so important to me in doing this work, but I do think that the way that I came to this space is fairly unique, even though there will be pieces of this story that will resonate with a lot of people, and I'm hoping that it does, but that there are also other pieces that are fairly unique. And I think the story, in and of itself, provides a lot of information about what happens when someone struggles to read and doesn't receive appropriate help and doesn't understand why, and I think that's why this story will also be very interesting to a lot of people, and my guest today is someone that I spend a lot of time with. You'll probably hear that in our conversation, because we're very comfortable with each other, but the person that I'm speaking with today is my husband. And like I said, I've talked about him and his story at different points with other people, but I've never really had him involved in a conversation my husband. So my husband's name is Curtis Pons, and he is so many things I you know I was going to say, I was going to try to introduce you, Curtis, with various lines, but I mean, there just isn't one thing that really sums you up very well. And we have four children, and our four children will probably be giggling along listening to this too. But you know, Curtis, for I think one of the things that I want our listeners to understand about you is that you presented like like, reading hadn't been a challenge. I didn't know anything when we got married. That's the piece that's going to be really interesting. But that isn't unfamiliar for a lot of folks, and isn't unusual a lot of people who have struggled with reading. That is what you do. You You don't want people to know that you struggle with reading. So that would all be a journey of discovery, too, to find out this isn't unusual, because there's nothing you feel there's nothing you can do about it. You got to get on, carry on. It's the last thing you want people to know about you. So that's a piece of your story. So when I introduced Curtis, he was doing all of those many things. He was on the Dean's list at our university here. He had been in college, so there was no reason to think, and I didn't realize that you could struggle with reading and be on a dean's list at a university, but yes, you certainly can. That would be news to me. You had a business that you were involved with, and it was in construction that will be an interesting piece to talk about, too. So you had all of these great things, and you were a great adventurer. That's the piece that you and I really kind of got together on is we would go have adventures, and that was fantastic. So there were all of these things that were so wonderful and amazing, and we end up getting married, and then discovering very early on that reading was difficult, and it was kind of by happenstance. So Curtis, I want you to kind of, and if you don't mind, and I know that you hate this part. So folks, if this is really big deal for Curtis to come on the podcast and talk like this too, because it's not his favorite thing to do. So I'm hoping I told him to just relax. It's a conversation. It's just the two of us. And I'm hoping that you really are able to do that, but Curtis, I want you to kind of talk a little bit about that. So we got married, and it's on our honeymoon. When I say early on the reading thing came up. It was on our honeymoon that it came up, and we were just newly married and Curt, do you want to pick up the story there?

Curtis Pons:

Sure. So yeah, it's interesting that that my reading didn't come up before that night in our tent at the base of the Tetons, we had picked up a book in Jackson Hole. And you know, your request, I would have never, you know, thought to, let's grab a book in town and and read it in the tent that night. That wasn't anything. But hey, you know, I'm game for for anything, right? I'm. I'm all about the adventure. So it was nothing that my reading isn't anything that I, you know, tried to hide. It's something that I never really thought much about, other than to describe myself as a slow reader. But everybody in my house is a slow reader, and so I never really thought much about it, to talk to you about my reading, because it was just who I was. It was I classified the world as, you know, either you're a, you know, a good reader, a fast reader, or a slow reader. And I just happened to be in that slow reader camp. So we so Donell picks up the book that night and does her beautiful reading as as you know, as anyway, if you've heard her read, you'll know what I mean. And then she hands the book to me, and thinking nothing of it, I watch into reading, and she is quietly horrified, but I didn't know it. She was so kind. And so I do the reading, and she's thinking, well, you you'll finish the story about what you were thinking. But I thought nothing of it. I just did my reading, and then handed the book back to Donell after the chapter was done, and so you you tell you from your side of the view, what, what happened on your end? What were you thinking?

Donell Pons:

You know, and Curtis, I think it's so, so interesting to hear you talk about the fact that you didn't realize the reading was and this would all be layers of discovery for you, as you are given the tools to say, Wait a minute. Not everybody's struggling like this. Wait a minute. Not everybody has decisions made for them about their future, because reading is a thing you didn't this just becomes something as a journey of discovery, really, of all the ways in which it impacted your life. So I think that's really interesting, is that you didn't know until you saw, Oh, it doesn't need to look like this. You had just increasingly the world looked this way for you because reading was hard. Reading was difficult, I guess such an interesting part of your story. Yeah. And then, like you said, you had a household, right? You had a household of folks around you that also were slow readers. In other words, you had a house full of folks with dyslexia. We later find out.

Curtis Pons:

I call myself a purebred, because both my parents and all of my siblings and me were, yeah, we're all dyslexic. Some won't admit it, and some are more severe than others. I think I kind of probably fit into the middle of the pack.

Donell Pons:

So yeah, yeah, that's interesting, how that can frame what your experience is. So here we are in this tent. And thing about it is, my career at the time was I was a journalist and wrote for a paper, and so nothing was ever said. You'd never said, Oh, well, I really don't like writing. I don't really like reading. That just never came up. We never even discussed it. So I do nonchalantly hand that book off to you in the tent. It happened to be a Michael crichman, you were really into it. Later, we finished it, right? But it was interesting because you picked the book up and there was no hesitation. It wasn't like you were trying to hide it, like you said, you just launch in to what is a very labored read, and later you and I say, we had a conversation. It was about a third grade read that you were you were with third grade skills. You were trying to read this book, and it was so difficult I

Curtis Pons:

had no idea that I was reading on a third grade level, like I say, I was just a slow reader, and I heard the term dyslexia before, but you know that applied to people who read backwards. And I didn't read backwards, I just read slow and labored. But yeah, it wasn't really anything I thought much about to, you know, have a conversation with my new spouse that, you know, I struggled with reading and and how much time I was spending each day to get through my college classes and and to get through those textbooks was, you know, it was a lot of work, but I didn't realize How much more work I was spending than my peers. I was, you know, just doing my thing, you know, keeping up with classwork. And if I had to put in eight hours, you know, consistently, a day to to get through it and to remember it and to comprehend it, that's just what I did.

Donell Pons:

And so Curtis, I want you to share that at the same juncture, because kind of a lot of things happened at the same point. You also decided you could no longer do college at this particular point too, even though you were on the Dean's List. Tell what happened there and why that decision came to be.

Curtis Pons:

Yeah, that was a tough, tough day, and I hate to relive it. It was, it was actually overpaying tuition, and I'm sure I missed instructions somewhere that the tuition office had moved and it was probably are we doing email back? I don't think we

Donell Pons:

snail mail.

Curtis Pons:

I missed a I missed a sign or a note or something. I'm sure. And so I go to pay my tuition, and, you know, I was getting a Pell Grant. There was probably something to do with that too. That made it even more complicated, and trying to get to the right place and get that taken care of it was so frustrating. And I just, I don't know, it was just one of those days where

Donell Pons:

It's okay. You know, I want us to be okay being in this space because you're so not alone. You know, every day when I work with adults, and I come up and they tell you how hard it is. They at some point, we cry every day when I work with my students, so it's okay.

Curtis Pons:

So it was just one of those days where the world, you know, was too much. And I just couldn't do it. And I remember going back to my car and letting a string of expletives fly in frustration, and I drove off campus, not realizing that I would never drive on campus again.

Donell Pons:

You know, you talked about you when you share that story, Curtis you talked about was the day your dreams ended and you didn't

Curtis Pons:

realize it. Yeah, gosh, if I could do that day over again, and and know that the consequences of i here of having limited options to support a family, I think That's the biggest thing that has plagued my life. Knowing that, you know, supporting a family is my responsibility and and that I would have very few options to accomplish that very important task. And I thought that I was going to be an architect. I knew I always wanted to own my own business, my my dad was an entrepreneur and ran his own businesses and and I knew that that was, you know, probably my, my, my, my where I would go to support a family, but so my, my goal was to have a business degree and and I couldn't accomplish that. It was, it was too much with the eight hours a day of consistent reading and trying to keep up and that frustrating day I had no idea what I was, consigning myself to a life of very limited employment options that would pay well enough To support a family. And it was, it was like, I said, Gosh, I wish I could repeat that day, because I would have made a different decision. And had I met you earlier, or, you know, had we, you know, been married or had a relationship at that time, I'm certain you'd have gotten me through that day and on my own with a house full of Dyslexics, though the word college was never even mentioned in my household, my parents met in beauty school that, you know, they were both dyslexic and and, you know, had limited options too, and so, You know, I had no one really to talk to. No one really to say, Oh, come on, Curtis, you can do better or, or you can get through this, or to show me the big picture there. There was no one for me to do that, and, and so I was on my own, and knew I never wanted to repeat that day. And so, you know, one day turned into the next, and the day of me driving back onto the campus never came. It never happened again. And so, yeah, that was crazy. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

you know, we've talked Curtis often. You can spot a dyslexic a mile away, you say, because they're scrappy. And I think that's that piece you're speaking to. I unless people think you haven't done well, you really have, but you've had to be, as you say, scrappy. Talk about what that looks like for someone who has dyslexia, because you also gave me a little peek into when you go into the spaces or. Fields that are left to someone who struggles with reading, say, construction, which is where you spent a good deal of your time. You see a lot of other people like you, and that's when you went to get a license in construction. Kind of talk a little bit about noticing the same people were in those spaces.

Curtis Pons:

Yeah. So it was kind of interesting to, you know, have a, you know, several years experience in construction. Now I had, I was a general contractor, and I was flipping homes, and in a, you know, some really nice areas we, we did some really high end things. And part of my licensure of being a general contractor was the continuing ed. And every few years I would need to have several hours worth of continuing ed. And I'd find myself in a room, you know, probably 40, 50, almost all male, you know, middle aged guys, getting our licenses renewed and taking these classes. And we would, you know, once in a while, you know, asked for somebody to come up and, you know, write on the whiteboard, or, you know, to spell something in a questionnaire, or, you know, fill out some sort of, you know, writing task, and good heavens, not, not a one of us could spell, not one of us. And it was incredible. And I mean, of course, we gave each other latitude, because nobody, nobody knew the the I was sitting in a room full of Dyslexics who had the same limited options that I did, and we all gravitate to a career that you know can support a family financially, but you know that that's where we all seem to culminate. I know that there are other careers that you know, dyslexic seem to, you know, gravitate towards, but that's the one that I went to, and a lot of people do, and it is crazy to see the the density of dyslexia in one of those rooms. It was, it was astounding.

Donell Pons:

And so Curtis, I want folks also to get a picture of this, because even though we had that night in the tent on our honeymoon, and and this reading, this, this thing that was occurring with your reading was unusual, to say the least, because this disparity between and oftentimes, that's how we, you know, people finally are able to say, hey, could this be dyslexia? Is otherwise bright individual exposed to, you know, same instruction as a room full of other children and not making the same gains in reading that oftentimes, is kind of the blunt instrument used to say, Should we look at? And so we had this, these sort of signs and indicators, but it wasn't easy for us to go from that to understanding that this is dyslexia. Was it that wasn't a quick journey for us? No,

Curtis Pons:

it was. It was really difficult. You had a cousin that you knew was dyslexic, and he was much more severe than me, and so, you know, neither of us thought that that was the thing it was. You know, several years later, when we had children that mainly our youngest, two of our children, two of our four children have dyslexia, but our youngest is much more severe and more severe than me. And it wasn't until, you know, Donell did some real deep diving into what this could be and figured it out and drove herself around the country to seminars and you know, people teaching about, you know, reading difficulties and dyslexia, and finally, coming to the culmination that, gosh, that's what this is. And so years later, I don't remember how old our youngest was. Maybe he was still in elementary school, maybe fourth grade or fifth was probably fourth grade, where we ended up going to the Capitol to support Decoding Dyslexia in one of their initiatives, they had a senator there that was putting forth a bill about dyslexia, and I remember that,

Donell Pons:

gosh, It's okay. This is tough. It is tough.

Curtis Pons:

I remember that that was another our day, yeah, and so in just, you know, we were in the capitol rotunda, and you know, a bunch of us were there, and parents with kids that were identified with dyslexia, so, so we were there, and the person leading the group said, Now, how many, how many people here have dyslexia? And I looked down at my little boy raising his hand. I. But I remember looking down at him with his hand raised, and knew at that point I had never said that I had dyslexia. I had never voiced those words are acknowledged, and with his hand raised, I had to raise mine, and that was the first time I admitted it to me and to anyone else, and to my little boy. It's the first time I admitted it to him as well. And that was a that was a changing point. It was rough, and it was it was a start of a, I guess, my my journey to healing, my journey to getting help, my journey, my attorney, too, you know, getting tutoring. And I don't know if, if you had told me prior to that, that I was reading on a third grade level in our tent that day. I think it may have been after that point, because you were so kind and so careful with me, to not make, not allow me to feel that bad about myself. And so, yeah, it was, it was a turning point for me to to to acknowledge and to get help, and to to find out that there was help. I mean, that was the whole point of Decoding Dyslexia, that there was help. And it was, it was amazing to to have you take all those classes and work so hard for for our children and me to be able to get us the tutoring that we need. And, you know, you know, you asked me about being scrappy and, and I was scrappy with that too. I, you know, I, I worked hard and, and that person reading at a third grade level doesn't exist anymore. I, you know, I'm glad to say that I'm reading on a 12th grade level now, and I don't come up in dyslexia screeners and thank you for all your work helping me?

Donell Pons:

Oh goodness, like you said, Curtis, you were scrappy. You were willing to put into work. And that's the piece that I think is interesting, even before we had the tools. And like you said, it took a lot of effort at that time, thankfully, because of and we're going to age ourselves dramatically here talking about how this information became more widely available with the internet, right? And as there was more information placed and better information and organizations that were then being put together, it's so great today to see the movement. And then now the science of reading, the interest in understanding, again, exactly how we learned to read. Going back to the research, what is it that we know? How should we really be teaching? How do we identify those who are struggling? All of that that is so much more in the open now we had to dig and search and as you say, drive distances to find the information at the time. But one thing that you did do consistently that I think was very helpful was that you read to our children at night. And so as you take the youngest one, he would always grab that youngest Little Reader, and then you would read those lower level books with that reader that were as they were, decodable text. You were going through a program that was teaching you various things, and you were applying those to the text that you were reading. And that was excellent practice, but that was on you to have the strength to do that, to go into the room and practice. But that was invaluable practice, because it was a safe space. The kids love spending time with you, but you would always grab that youngest Little Reader, because eventually your kids would outpace right? They would go along that trajectory, and you were thrilled to see that happening, but at the same time, you needed to feel comfortable reading too, in your space,

Curtis Pons:

right? Luckily, our kids, for the most part, you know, took off. The two that don't, don't have dyslexia, they took off really fast and and they didn't need me or want me reading to them anymore, but the other two, it was, it was really fascinating to see that the the vast difference of the way they learned how to read and picked up the the words. And it was really fascinating to see the difference and and how good that was for me to just start over and just practice, practice, practice, practice and and very safe they had no idea I was a slow reader that I described myself as. And it was, it was great. And and I, you know, was able to bond with my kids in a way that that I would wouldn't have been able to duplicate in any other way. And it was fantastic for me and for them. It was great.

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Donell Pons:

You said something interesting, Curtis about the capital, and I think it was a turning point. And so I think I want to go back and just emphasize that day, because, like I said, these were conversations we've been having since our honeymoon, right? But then finding the correct information, understanding exactly what it is you're looking at and how it its implications in your life. We didn't realize at the time on the honeymoon that if this happened to be dyslexia, we could have children with dyslexia. There's a heritable component. We didn't know that. And then, of course, we go on to have the children. And here's dyslexia in our in our household. We should have known these are things later we you and I, we have these conversations. We think, why didn't we know that? But they're just really not. Because it wasn't a straight progression of information that came to us. We really were putting this together on the fly, the two of us, trying to find the information. But that day on the Capitol was pivotal. And I remember too, really making an effort to be part of an organization that was was doing something and saying something, trying to get things done. That was very and Decoding Dyslexia across the country, fantastic. And I've been able to meet with people from different states who are part of the organization. They're phenomenal. And that was really pivotal. And being able to go, as you say, up to a public space and to be in a public space, claiming your own ownership and stake in something, and it was very I thought it was a powerful way to do it, because it wasn't a, oh dear, here's this problem, here's this issue. It was, yes, this exists. I'm a part of it, and we need to do something about it. And that felt really good, I think, to me, and I wanted our son to be a part of that. That's that was my motivation to get him up there. We had to drag him out of bed. He missed a little bit of school to get him up to the Capitol that day. It was on the school day, but it was important. And I'm so glad that you were there that day too, that you came. So this is the other thing. Is you've been so supportive along the way, too, of this journey, it can be painful. I mean, obviously we've shed tears this morning, and it's not like this is the first time we've talked about it, and it's not the last time we'll talk about it. And every time we talk about it, there's emotion there, because it's powerful. But you've been so bold about stepping into that space, because it hasn't been easy to do. I

Curtis Pons:

often. You know, we talk about literacy every single day, and it's, and we go to conferences together, and it's, you know, eye opening, but you know, just like I can spot a dyslexia or a dyslexic person from across the room, from a mile away, how I say, I can also spot people in this space where This isn't personal to them, where it's a job, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not disparaging that in the slightest, but there is a difference when this is personal and and it's it's personal to us.

Donell Pons:

Yeah, that's, that's true. That's an interesting point. And I also want to just have you explore just a little bit here how you because I know folks will be interested. And of course, this could be an entire podcast on its own, and there often are podcasts about it, but getting help for yourself. So there were a few key pieces we talked about, the practice, practice, practice you picking up with the youngest reader. So you could state, maintain that text that was on your level, where you were able to have experiences with, Hey, I'm learning about how to take apart words that are of this same type. You call them syllable types, but whatever you know the information that's provided in order to take that word apart, decode it. And then there are also other skills that you're receiving at the same juncture as you say, I went around finding programs and getting trained, and one that you used for yourself. It was, you know, it's Reading Horizons. We don't mind saying. We love that company too. There are many different things that we use, and it was very helpful. There was an online piece talk a little bit about that as an adult, getting that help and getting those pieces put together for you at this stage of your life.

Curtis Pons:

I don't know if I can speak to, you know, the the online portion of it any different than I can speak to, you know, the way that that you tutored me personally. It was all it was all good. It was all, you know, part of my journey to be able to figure out what. What pieces were missing for me, you know, it's, it was interesting for you to talk about how I could pull apart multi syllabic words, just fine. But then I would miss articles, you know, the the to, and the the and the from and, you know, all the the simple things that make a sentence, you know, understandable. I would, you know, miss those consistently. But I guess identifying the pieces that I was missing and where, where to build from there, I think the software did pretty well to figure out where, where to start from and where those holes were. So yeah, and

Donell Pons:

I guess more Curtis, I'm probably wanting you to speak to the fact that as an adult, trying to find time to receive this instruction, right? Because you don't have time, as you've talked about, you had a family to provide for, and that was always top of mind for you, I know. And so it was, I think the software was something that enabled or helped you to be able to find time to do that, because you could fit it in, squeeze it in somewhere, get it done.

Curtis Pons:

Yeah, that's true that that was convenient, that I could just do it on my own time, and I didn't have to to bother you or find time to do another lesson. But yeah, that is a really good point when you're really busy as an adult and you've got the, you know, the world pulling at you in all kinds of ways, it's tough to find that time to dedicate. But yeah, so the software really was good in that aspect. I really enjoyed that part.

Donell Pons:

And you know, Curt, there's something interesting you were saying back, and I didn't want to interrupt you, because you had such a great message to share about college, and it's so powerful. But I was just thinking when you mentioned it, so I want to kind of pick up that thread and have you speak to it a little bit. You mentioned, had I known you, I think I probably could have finished college. And it isn't just about the fact that I would have been supportive, but also about finding the right tools for you, right and accommodations. So now that you see me working with students who are in college and asking for the right accommodations, we're making sure that they know exactly what the challenges are. When you see me putting that together, what do you think about what could have been for you if you had received the same kind of support?

Curtis Pons:

Gosh, I could have done just about anything. I think that. I think back to the line in Little Women at the end where, where Joe was lamenting about being female, and she said that I could have done a great many things. And it's the same thing for me with not having the support I needed and not having, you know, an advocate, somebody, somebody who really understood what it took to to help somebody with dyslexia, to know wha to you know, not just the encouragement. Well, the encouragement, I think, is massive. If there's nothing else that you know a loved one can provide, then you know, encouragement goes a long way. But for you to have the, you know, to go through such efforts, to find the tools and to become educated in this field, was huge, to be able to and then to see you provide those same benefits to people that are struggling around the world. You zoom with people all over the place that that struggle. And it's, it's incredible to watch you handle them with the same care that you handle me and our children. And anyway, it's it's amazing to watch. You change people's lives. You've changed my life. You've changed our kids' lives. And you give people options, you give people a way to provide for their families. You give them a sense of hope and self confidence. And there is no other word when you're a school kid than stupid. You feel stupid. You are there. It's not a nice word, and I don't like saying it. I don't like hearing people say that to describe themselves, but that's it. When you are are a kid trying to learn how to read, and you see your peers taking off and learning this stuff. And prior to that, you felt equal to your peers. And then this strange task occurs, and suddenly, man, it hits the opposite side of the head, and you are left with no other conclusion, that that you are not as bright as your peers are. And it is, it's. It is something that I think that the parents and teachers need to be more sensitive to. And I remember that, you know, my grade school teacher, you know, doing what all, almost all grade school teachers do is they want to celebrate those who are getting this. And by doing that unknowingly, in saying, Oh, would you look at Susie? She's reading on a fifth grade level already. And, you know, and here's Curtis, you know, not getting much of anything. Thinking, yeah, Curtis is stupid, because I'm not getting any of this. And, gosh, I wish just if, if parents and and teachers would just be a little more sensitive to those listening to those conversations. You can have those conversations in private, but you know, with the rest of the students listening in we're we may be stupid, but we're smart enough to know what that means. So, you know, I'm

Donell Pons:

glad that you brought up that point about very early knowing, very early knowing that what is going on here, and that's the key theme I think I hear from a lot of individuals. And I also wanted to say thank you for letting me be in this space and for the other individuals that I am allowed to help. It's a real privilege to be in this space and to be able to help people. It oftentimes. Here's the other thing that I wanted to bring to that too, is that folks who have struggled, as long as somebody who has had a reading difficulty that was never addressed and didn't get appropriate help, it's not okay to come into this space with someone who's an adult and not bring your A game. We've had this conversation before, right? Is that they are been so let down so many times, and so is a privilege to be in this space. But I also realize that I need to bring it my A game every day, because I'm working with people who have had their time wasted. They've had their hopes and dreams dashed, and so I better well, bring my my my first a game. And I think that that also is why I'm always so open to the science of reading, and always open to learning more, and always open to somebody saying, Yes, that was what we understood that year. But coming into the future, we now have research that says this, and I'm always open to seeing it, and why researchers who say, show me the data. Let's talk. I could be convinced I like leaning into folks who are able to do that, because we do need to always be pushing to do our best, because, as I say, you're helping folks who have been let down so much, right?

Curtis Pons:

You know, that's a really good point that you bring up. I remember, you know, having no confidence in the school system that I would be able to be helped there. I mean, it was proven time and time again, grade after grade, teacher after teacher, that there was no help for me, and, you know, so I was just this, you know, one of the, you know, several kids that were the slow readers, because there was, there wasn't anything else. There was teachers didn't even try. I remember in high school somehow getting picked up as a slow reader. It was probably over my low A, CT scores or SAT. I can never remember which. It's one of those letter acronyms that just doesn't stick with the dyslexic. So in any case, I got picked up and was put into a class where they were doing some testing, and I did the testing, and the testing was rather poor, and then nothing. There was nothing. I remember the person who you know, either graded the test, or administered the test, you know, said, Well, that's not very good. And me thinking, Well, yeah, no kidding, I'm a slow reader and and what are you going to do about it? And there was nothing. There was no help for me. There was the testing, but nothing else, and it's crazy. So yes, Dyslexics, for the most part, are let down their entire lives with no help, with no confidence there is anyone to help them. And I know that the your students for the first time are just amazed that they've got somebody for the first time who understands their struggle and can do something about it. And they, invariably, they all, they all ask you, why didn't anybody teach me this before? Why did it take so long? Why aren't there other professionals that know this stuff? Why is it so rare and. So elusive. Why is it so rare, Donell? I'm seriously asking, Why? Why? Why isn't there more help? And we've,

Donell Pons:

we've had this conversation. It's why we're involved in the spaces that we are in, pushing legislation in our state, and then also helping wherever we can, in other places as well. And it's part of why this podcast series, right? The more we talk, the more information that's available, the more voices that speak, then that's where change occurs, right? That day when you took that very important step of raising your hand on the capital steps with your son, was one of those moments. And when we have more of those moments, more people taking those moments together, we get change. That's what moves the dial, and I think the impatience is because there's so the stakes are so high, right? The consequence isn't that, Oh, you missed out on this experience over here, or, you know, maybe you didn't get to draw a picture a certain way. What we're talking about here is a life changer, right? And I think that's been this conversation that we've taken people on this journey of this conversation today together, is it's been a life changer, and it changed not only your life, but then it changed whoever's life you come in contact with. So mine became different as a result, our children as a result, and their children as a result. So that's the other piece as we wrap up this conversation, is, where do we go from here? And I want to hear some positive points from you, Curtis, about what are some some things that we can do, and maybe I've given you a little bit to speak to. And you asked the question, Why doesn't it change? And maybe we talked to some things that have changed, ways in which people can help push them change. And then also, I want to speak to a little bit my one of our children, our youngest, who who has commented before. He's not that young anymore, but he's commented before, why do you spend so much time with this, with this dyslexia stuff? You've already taught me to read, and I read great, and he does. He's benefited greatly, and I'm so thrilled. Considers himself a writer. It's all very thrilling. But I turned to him and I said, Because dyslexia is heritable, and so there will be other folks with dyslexia in our family in the future. And he goes, Oh, yeah, that's right. Okay. So that made total sense. So I want you to speak Curtis too. What are some things we can do? What are some positive things that we can do and speak to some of these areas we've been in, in trying to help universities understand their role in supporting students. What are some things that can be done, knowing you can get help and receive tutoring as an adult if you want,

Curtis Pons:

yeah, gosh, there's so much to that you've asked several questions in that and redirect me if I forget something. But, yeah, the heritable part is just so pervasive. And knowing that we will have grandchildren and great grandchildren and then on with dyslexia, it's, and I'm sorry for that, honey. I think you were a purebred of, I don't know, maybe you've added in your side too, but in any case, it's, it's a muddy gene pool now, so it's, it. It's amazing to think that the work that you're doing is not only helping that individual, but you're helping their them for generations. And that is man. That's powerful to think that you are, you know. The the the phrase, you know, teach a man to fish and and he'll, you know, fish for a lifetime is what you're doing, and He'll feed his family for a lifetime. That is what you're doing with teaching people how to read that. That's the that's the key for higher education. If you don't have that one piece, you can't do it. And I've often asked myself and asked other asked teachers, mainly grade school teachers, is there anything that you teach that is worth teaching if you haven't already taught that those students to read? And I can't think of anything, you know, some might argue math, but without the reading part, even that is is going to suffer. And so I'm amazed at how much effort is spent on other subjects when they know that their students are struggling with reading. I mean, that is there. I mean, it should be the only thing taught, if that is the thing that is holding those students back, because that is the key to all education, all higher education, and to support their families. In the end, it's, it's the key. It's the ultimate fishing rod to teach them how to read. And so, yeah, as an adult, I think that it's never too late. You have a student who's 61 I was 49 at the at that capital, when we went up there with my son, raising his hand, I was 49 and I'd never received any help. Never admitted it to myself at all. And. And I'm 59 years now, so 10 years ago, that's crazy, but it's never too late. And then in college, gosh. The the work that that you and other professionals are doing in this space is fantastic. And I think that it's been a struggle for the professionals in this space to get the colleges on board. It's, you know, the schools of education just to teach their teachers the science of reading has been an absolute struggle. And, you know, they teach the things that they were taught, you know, 4050, years ago, when they were in school. And so much has changed, so much science, so much brain science, and, you know, MRIs and things that can actually identify exactly what's happening in a person when they in the brain when the person is learning to read. And so there shouldn't be any more excuses, but there seems to be a lot of excuses still. And I know it's frustrating for you and other professionals in this field to get the colleges and you know, the the right tools into the hands of teachers, and you're doing an amazing work in that space. But it is still an absolute challenge to get things to move. But there slowly. I mean, I think it was maybe, maybe just a few months ago where we talked about, we're finally seeing, you know, the glimmers, the first steps of things changing in in the colleges, the things that they're teaching. And it's, it's amazing to see. It's a long, long road still to go but, but we're seeing change finally. And that's, fantastic. You there were so many questions, what did I miss?

Donell Pons:

Nope, you got it. You got it. You gave me some great ideas that's and great thoughts, that's terrific. We've had a really good conversation, far reaching. And I really appreciate you being willing again, to step into this space and be brave. Because you have, you stepped up and been brave many, many times in many, many places, and not to apologize for the emotion that goes with it, because that's universal. As I said before, I can't emphasize enough when you work in this space with adults who struggled with reading their whole lives, some kind of knowing, some not knowing at all, in many stages along the way, there's a lot of emotion behind it, because it does change a person's life, and it does shape their experiences when reading is difficult and it starts young, and as you say, pervasive and impacts everything, certainly within the school system and then without. And so I really appreciate you being able to sit down have this conversation and be so candid and open with all of us about what it's like to experience dyslexia. So thank you, Curtis,

Curtis Pons:

Thank you for having me, and maybe we'll rerecord this one day when I'm not so emotional. Anyway, thank you, honey. Appreciate it.

Narrator:

Thanks for joining us today. Literacy Talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where reading momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.