Literacy Talks

Dyslexia Talks: Helping Students with Disabilities Succeed in College and Beyond with Christine Anderson

• Reading Horizons • Season 6 • Episode 7

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In this insightful conversation, Donell Pons sits down with Christine Anderson, director of the Center for Disability and Access at the University of Utah. Christine shares her personal and professional experiences working with individuals with disabilities, providing a unique perspective on the challenges students face when transitioning from high school to higher education. 

They discuss the shift from the entitlement-based K-12 system to eligibility-based adult services, the importance of updated documentation, and the need for self-advocacy skills. Christine also highlights the Center's efforts to create a welcoming environment, build collaborative campus partnerships, and launch new initiatives like a peer mentorship program to support students with disabilities in reaching their full potential.

This is part two of the Literacy Talks miniseries Dyslexia Talks, hosted by Donell Pons.

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Narrator:

Stacy, welcome to Literacy Talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy Talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia and special education, and Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now, let's talk literacy.

Donell Pons:

Today. I've got a really great conversation, and I think particularly for not just students, but also for parents, and I'm hoping also individuals who do any counseling for students who are leaving a high school situation and they're not quite sure what they want to do, what the next steps will be, and maybe this, these individuals have received a lot of counseling and support in high school, and they're not quite sure how to make those next steps. This can be a big challenge. What do I do after I leave high school? And so today's conversation, I have a really great guest, and I'm just going to start off the name Christine Anderson, and you are the new director, fairly new director of the Center for Disability and Access at the University of Utah, and I've had the pleasure of being able to not only just meet you, but also spend some time with you, and to also watch as you get into this position that you have, and look around and see what you can do to help bring accessibility, that accessibility piece, to the fore, which I think is great. So this is going to be a terrific conversation, everyone, because

Christine Anderson:

very kind of you. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. So

Donell Pons:

Christine, I'm just going to start you off right off the bat, because your background is impressive, and I think it's part of why you get it, the quotes around. Get it because you do you understand the space. So tell us a little bit about your background. Sure,

Christine Anderson:

sure. Happy to start. I'll tell you professionally, and then I'll tell you a little personally. How's that so my career and working with people with disabilities started a long time ago. It's been a few decades now that I have been working with individuals with disabilities, and it's mostly because I just started thinking about what happens to youth. I started working with students with chronic health issues and young children in a hospital setting. And one in particular aspect is I worked at neuroscience inpatient unit, and I started to think of all these students who were struggling to learn, who were struggling with their mental health in treatment. And I started to think, Well, what happens when they transition from this particular setting into the community, into education again, and how can I support them? And so I started thinking about, is it social work that they want to do. Or is it working with people with disabilities? Is it special ed? So I found a nice little niche called rehabilitation counseling, and that is really helping to advocate for individuals in the community, to help with work settings, really to increase the best independence as possible and help individuals to reach their potential. So I was excited to find a graduate program. And then I became an advisor here on this campus, University of Utah. And then I thought, if I still want to make a difference, I need to move on for additional graduate work. So then I went on and did some doctoral studies, and went to what majority of people do is they work in the state vocational rehabilitation system, helping with individuals with employment, helping students in transition move from high school to post secondary, and thinking about employment and all of that just resonated with me as I started working with families and students and thinking about the best possible outcome. And then during that time, I adopted three children, along with my husband and their neuro divergent so not only do I research it and I live it, and sometimes I think back to my early days of being a professional, and think I need to go back and say some things to those parents, because I really thought I knew it until I was living it and seeing it every day, and that changed my perspective tremendously. But my oldest has autism, which brings, of course, anxiety, and then he's very, very gifted, but really lacks some some independent living skills, for sure now, but he has an amazing mom who's helped him with a lot of things. And then I have another kiddo who has ADHD and a learning disability in. Math. But as we know, it doesn't just relate to just math. There's other things of sequencing and social skills that come about, and then my youngest has a cognitive disability, and he has low vision and he has some behavioral challenges as well. So it's a busy little household we have, but like I said, I feel like I live disability 24/7 now. Yeah, Christine, I

Donell Pons:

love hearing about your background, because when we did get to talking, it was clear to me in the conversations that we had that this was more than than work. And oftentimes, you know, that's just fine. People do a really good job at their work, but you really got the piece that happens when someone leaves campus, what happens to the rest of the day, relationships, that kind of a thing, the whole perspective, which is really important, Oh,

Christine Anderson:

for sure. For sure. I mean, I've been on both sides of the table. I've had or have gone to IEP meetings, and I've walked in the room and people have been scared of me, and I'd like, I'm just in the role of parents today, not quite sure what to say to me, but at the same time, there's some things that happen in the school, and it's not, it's not a good idea, and and there's some things that have happened that have excluded my children, and that's not good either. So I've, I've been on the side where they've been in public school, and they've been in private school and integration in both so I see both sides definitely. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

that's really important. I think that's interesting. You're talking about just your role as you come into the room, how you might be approached differently, and just having that understanding of what that might feel like for somebody. So what strikes you with some of the most important aspects of the Disability Resource Center at the University.

Christine Anderson:

Thank you. So everyone calls their access Office different, so it's our specifically, is Center for Disability and access, and I've seen that change come about as a result of some of the terminology and trying to come away from disability or think about access. But when I think about when a student comes into our office at the very beginning, it's kind of scary. Not quite sure what you're going to expect. Are you going to be received and welcomed? And for me, I think first and foremost, I want students to feel like they have a place on campus, that they belong, and that someone in our office is going to assist them, and not only just assist them as a professional, but really get to know who they are. So I've started this shift coming to the U having my staff really think about who is this person that's sitting across from me, and not only who is that person in the room, but what do they bring with them? What's their family experiences, like, what has been their educational experience, and what opportunities have they had? And so we have a wide variety of students who come and approach our office, whether they're local, whether they're from out of state, and each of those presents a new experience, and everyone is unique. And I want my staff to to fill that and help students in the system, while also trying to help independence, which is a big part, is a big part of it.

Donell Pons:

So Christine, you you've touched on it, and you're right. I want to get there very quickly, because this is this is that juncture where if a student was receiving a great deal of support and help from a caregiver, this is a new experience moving into the college realm, because that is no longer a part of it. Help kind of describe and explain that for

Christine Anderson:

sure. So when we have K through 12, even pre K, because then we're using the IDEA the disability educational accommodations. And once you move from 18 or you know, we've got 22 depending on what post high skills there are, we moved to two separate laws. So we have special education law, and once a student graduates, then they have adult and the way I describe it is it's one thing is entitled, and adult services is based on eligibility. So we have a fabulous country where everyone gets a free, appropriate public education, and we want to engage with learners. Once you become to adult services, you have to prove your eligibility you have a disability. But that's a really different mindset to change from when you think about transition, where everything was provided, or sometimes you have to fight for it a little bit, but then you move to adult services, and everything's based on, okay, what are your disability? What are the things you struggle with? What accommodations are you going to need, and having to explain that, and that's very different too, because if you're not familiar in describing your disability or the things that you struggle with, that's a really big shift, and also the age of. Of accountability in our country is different unless you have guardianship. So oftentimes we can't talk to parents unless there's a release of information in place. So already you're sending your your students to another setting, and you might not have access to the same information that you've always had, and your youth may not be as skilled and advocacy skills for themselves to explain what's needed now, what they struggle with so two different things, and that's why I think it's a challenging time unless you're prepared for it. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

I love having this conversation, because I think we need to have it more often in lots of different places for folks to be able to prepare for the situation that comes upon them rather quickly. It seems like you mentioned something so interesting, and that was about eligibility. Because oftentimes what you'll hear from students and their parents too is, why do I have to keep proving that I have this disability that I don't outgrow? But it's because we're in an environment where, like, you say it's eligibility, right? That's how you get the services eligibility

Christine Anderson:

to touch on that piece of the nature of the disability doesn't change. Someone who's diagnosed with autism is going to have autism throughout their life, but how it presents in different situations. My son wasn't diagnosed until he was 15, probably because he has an amazing mom, but really what it meant was that, if you didn't qualify, went ahead and did things on my own. So then once he started to gain independent skills, or needing more of those skills, it became more pronounced. He always had those issues from the start, but having those changes, subtle changes in the demands for independence became increasingly more difficult. So it's not that autism or learning disabilities don't change, but then, in a different situation, what are the challenges that's being presented? So you may have had an assessment or a diagnosis of disability, or you saw the psychologist when they were eight or nine years old. Those were different experiences at eight or nine, and the things that they needed to accomplish at eight and nine is very different at 1718, up to 25 even to 30. So what happens is, when we see that documentation, we say, yes, there's a history of that documentation. And in some programs like the public vocational rehabilitation, you see that that's a presence excellent, that's eligibility. When we come to a higher education system, we start thinking, yes, there's the disability, there's the presence of it, there's the impacts or impediments needing accommodations. But then, how does it fit when we're in an environment like this, where it needs to be normed to particular adults? So a young adult setting, adult setting. How does it impact? And once we start thinking about that's why I need a little bit different assessment. And what's also a little more confusing is depending upon a junior college with open enrollment, where you don't have to have a lot of the admission requirements, versus another school where there's a little bit more admission requirements or or professional programs. So at the University of Utah, we have a variety of programs, and that's why we need to make sure, okay, how is it impacting the student? Right now, we know you have a disability in reading or autism. How does it affect you when you're in your classes. And that's the pieces that we're trying to connect. Christine, I

Donell Pons:

love that explanation, because this is a thing that comes up quite often, is understanding, why are we doing an assessment again? But that information? I'm going to push on that a little bit because I think I asked it a little later, and let's just go there, because we're talking about it, yes, the information that it can provide, like you say, as the student is getting older, because needs may change based on not just that, but also the environment, as you're talking about being in a college environment. So then take us to the part where maybe these are the accommodations that were appropriate when I was in middle school, but now that I'm in a college situation, maybe they're not the most appropriate accommodations, or so we

Christine Anderson:

know, kind of those standard accommodations, I want to say, and I don't necessarily want to think of it as a menu, but you know, I'm going to need extended time. I need my books in an alternative format. I might need some captioning. I may need a reader. So all of those are kind of our standard menu options. But then when you start thinking about, well, now I'm in this math class, I've always used a calculator, but maybe I'm a professor that thinks, Well, maybe you should already know how to do this, and you shouldn't use a calculator. And so we we can say. So this is how it's directly impacting the students in their comprehension. They are really good at putting that information. They can still describe how to how to complete the problem solving. And so we're not really looking at a calculator anymore. We're now looking at how do you articulate and figure out the next problem and the next skill set, and that's why we need that updated documentation. Or also it helps, because now you're in a professional setting and you're going to ask for accommodations on national exams, as well as different steps along the program. Some programs have you take another national assessment to gain a little bit of certification before you move additionally in your major. So that has nothing to do with us. But now we need to prove eligibility to another adult service, which would be that testing service. So having updated documentation keeps moving along so you can progress, and it's not a hindrance. But I also want to say it can be expensive, right to get these assessments, so I don't want it to be a hindrance to students. We have some wonderful alumni who have donated to our cause, and I don't want that to be a hindrance to someone if they don't have health insurance, or they don't have the means to get some updated assessments. We have a scholarship for that. So in the meantime, we can do some provisional, basic accommodations while we're figuring all of this out, so it doesn't impact the student. So we the best part of the thing is, is to come to our office so we can start talking about these things, or thinking about it as you're meeting with the IEP and doing your transition plans, and saying, Hey, where's the school psychologist? We need to make sure we get some updated documentation, because I'm going to school post high in a year. Where can we do that, as far as our transition plan? And that makes a difference. So some parents may not understand that that's something they can ask for in preparation for transition planning.

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Donell Pons:

so Christine, while we're here at this juncture, I'm going to ask a question, because maybe it might be different from what I'm thinking it is. But is there, overall, one thing that you see in particular that students are arriving without, that they don't seem to be prepared for? Is it testing like I'm thinking? It is updated testing, or is it something

Christine Anderson:

I think there's a combination. So else? Donell, I think there is updated testing, but I also see the other pieces students aren't able to articulate well what they struggle with and what limitations they have and what accommodations they're going to need. We see that time and time again for a number of reasons. There are some parents who feel like, I don't want to tell my child and separate them and embrace that identity, and that's okay, but sometimes people still make an assumption whether you identify a child or not, and that tool and piece is missing if your child, your student, can't articulate what their needs are and why they had an extra time in the room, or why they went were pulled out of the classroom to talk about something else. And so sometimes we it's the first time a student has ever been advocating for themselves, but we also see the piece where students did okay. They had some really good strategies. They were really great at negotiating, or they had really high verbal skills,

Donell Pons:

Christine, I love that you brought that up because and somehow they made it through high school, and now they're experiencing a whole different situation, where now their study skills aren't working as well as they thought, or they're super distracted, and then on top of that, they're not having a good self esteem, and it's impacting them in that way. So then we've got some mental health things. So sometimes students have gone through the whole system, and they're not prepared for what they're experiencing in this adult setting, and now they're struggling. So then should I come to disability services? You? What does that look like? Oh, you mean, I really need to go check it out. We have some really great faculty that recognize the struggle students are having, and they're not supposed to identify. We don't want it to, you know, identify students. But saying, you know, I'm noticing you're struggling with this. Maybe we'll talk to the Dean of Students Office, maybe you should know that there's a Disability Center on campus and there's a tutoring center, because I've noticed different things about you. Then we also get students in that way, and then they start exploring and adjusting to this new experiencing that they're having. So we see two things, you just hit on my personal experience with my husband. So he was at the University of Utah on the Dean's list, and has dyslexia, never knew, made it through by that skin of his teeth, kind of negotiating, sliding underneath, showing up, you know, extra hours getting by, and then ends up at the University and is trying his hardest. And he remembers that we do a podcast, and we'll be listening to his story, because it's quite something. But he remembers the day that he could no longer do it. He couldn't carry the load, but had no idea that a, there was a name for what was happening, right? And B, there would be services at all. And so I love that you slid right into that, saying that there is a population of folks, because that was experience we had who may make it through, get to the college level, have this desire to get that degree and then run into a lot of roadblocks. Because, boy, this is hard, and I don't have the skill set for it. I wasn't prepared, I don't didn't even know why I'm struggling. And so I love that you've spoken to that. But that's hard, isn't it, Christine, because you talked about the other part. It's difficult if you've been in the system to even own and be able to talk about but if you've never been in the system to then at that stage of the game, try to talk this new language hard.

Christine Anderson:

And that is the piece that I worry about, because I see that in a population on campus, you could have 30% of your student population who is experiencing a disability, whether it's mental health, whether there's a learning disability, sensory but Then I think of the fact that only about five to 10% self identify in our office have come to our office. So I worry about what are the other 20% or so doing, using their compensatory skills, reaching out to what we call natural supports, which would be your support system, a teacher that's really helpful to you, that's giving you extra time and being flexible with your deadlines and really working for you. But I worry about that 20% where are they? Are they dropping out? What's happening? So I really worry about those students too. I'll stay okay.

Donell Pons:

So I love that you leaned into some statistics to talk about this, because that's that I think has to come to the conversation. Because they're the hidden, right? We don't see them. You may never hear from them, but we know they are there. My husband was part of that, though, that you know group of individuals who you would never have known, right? And like he said, One day, he just drove off campus and never came back. And with it ended his dreams, right?

Christine Anderson:

Oh, that is so heartbreaking to me, because Exactly, exactly it many of my colleagues in school, we've always been worried about, where is that, that student? How do we reach them. So what I'm trying to do coming here on campus is do more faculty education. I can't meet everyone on campus, but in the first six months that I've been here, I've been going to meet deans and talking about different populations of students and how they can reach out, especially at the bare minimum, putting a statement on the syllabus that says, if you need accommodations or struggling academically, come to our office. Then the other piece is teaching the graduate students, who are assistants. Because what happens is professors teaching, and then as students need additional assistance, the graduate students or the TAs teaching assistants are helping, so I've done some training with the teaching assistants to help and making sure they understand that our office is available to help so slowly building that we connecting, and also the university is doing some outreach and help and support. The nice thing about me being here previously is coming back. Sometimes we don't see the change when it's so myopic it's right in our view. But now that I've been gone for a little while and coming back, I see this really change in wanting to assist students and recognizing there's some intersectionality. With students, when I say that students who have disabilities, but students who identify in different ways for their cultural identity, or their family identity, or first generation college students, all of that this administration is so so supportive of that we have a little ways to go. There's some things we need to do, but creating spaces, and that's why we're so excited to move to a different space on campus, that we have a little bit more programming space, that we can do, a little bit more workshops. And I have really, really big dreams and big ideas, but we'll just get there day by day, but just excited for the things that we're doing. You know, Christine, I

Donell Pons:

love that, because you're right, it's going to take all of it, right? We're talking about different pieces, but I think the whole thing is, what's going to bring it together? And you've mentioned just visibility, just even it being in a space where now you're part of a community, you're being seen, right? And that makes it easier to approach you to begin with, yes. And then you're, you're talking about reaching out, because, like you say, maybe as a professor, I've I was never exposed to the idea that I could have students in my classroom, and so it's not that I don't care, so I don't know,

Christine Anderson:

right? Yes, not understanding that, knowing and not really experiencing that. Because sometimes what happens is you grow up in your own environment, and when you get busy and you associate with like minded people, or your culture or community is the same, so then you don't see a divergent or anything that's different. And then, depending upon, you know, some people are really great at being open and talking about it. I guess I've turned into this open person who talks about my experiences in my profession, but sometimes people don't want to talk about it either, and that's okay, but then as a result, I think it it presents more isolation, and that, to me, is another piece of the struggle, too. Yeah, absolutely.

Donell Pons:

Well, this has been so great. I'm really hoping there are a few people that I've talked to in the past that get a chance to listen to this podcast, because you're answering so many of their questions and addressing, yeah, addressing challenges that they've had. So one of the opportunities I want to give you to talk about is because you're so gracious about the size of this thing, I mean, and it's daunting, it is there. It is there. Talk about the numbers. When you talk about their counselors, what they're dealing with, their load, so that we can have an understanding, too, of

Christine Anderson:

think you That's very kind. I mean, in what you most helping professions, we're experiencing some difficulty as well. As far as training people who understand recruiting those people and then being able to pay those people. So we have all of those pieces working together, but and that's the reality of where we live, and those are things that happen, but we are experiencing some significant growth as well, and as I look at the numbers and how it informs what we're going to be doing. I have five advisors, and I recently was able to hire another advisor. But when I look at the numbers, so when I told you, you know, 30% of the population of a school, so we have 35,000 students at the University of Utah, so you would anticipate there would be a significant number of students. I before I started, I looked at numbers, and there was about 1900 students. I ran the numbers in the middle of when I just started, and we had 2400 students just in the time that I've been here, from day 120, 400 students to now, six months later, I have 2800 students. So we're getting the word out. But then, as a result, my advisors are working with 400 students plus, and when we think about the way that we can really be engaging and developing a good working relationship. I really need them to only work with 200 students. So my advisors are so caring, so compassionate, and they're doing their best to work with students. But when you think about the volume and number, and I don't want students to feel like they're just a number either, but I think that's why sometimes maybe that service or help that you would anticipate is very different than what you experienced in public. So now we're in adult services higher higher opportunities to work with different people, as opposed to when you're in school, and maybe you had that paraprofessional one on one. So we are here, but sometimes things happen. But I also think if students and families reach out to the advisor often and not be afraid to reach out and say, I'm really struggling with this professor right now, or I'm not really understanding what resources do I have on campus? So our advisors are very. Good, but sometimes you might have to be the one to until we can get more people, but you might have to be the one to advocate a little more, and that's a big shift, too. But that being said, I'm super excited that we're starting a mentoring program that hasn't been here on campus, and I feel like we're behind a little bit. So we are launching a pilot of peer mentors. We did a little bit in the summer. We're continuing to grow it in the fall, and there's a lot of students who want that, not only for academic support, but social support. So I'm excited about that.

Donell Pons:

So Christine, I am so excited about that too, because all the statistics tell us that particularly with this population, it's in a lot of populations, but particularly the youth population. A mentor can be critical, right? That's

Christine Anderson:

100% because I came on campus myself and I knew where to go, but I also I could ask my family where to go on campus, but some students don't have that, and knowing that they can ask their advisor, but sometimes, you know that's an adult, I really want to know from my peer, like, really, what teacher should I take a class from? Or where's the best place to go study, or who's the tutor I should ask for so all of that is so crucial to success in an academic setting.

Donell Pons:

Absolutely, that's fantastic. With that, Christine, you also mentioned some other things that I think is really important, you know, before we end this conversation, and that's that work and school balance. So oftentimes we're we've talked about accommodation for education, for schooling, particularly when we're talking College, the anticipation is that's leading to a job of some kind, but that may be a real big leap again for me, right into the workspace. Yes,

Christine Anderson:

what I would encourage students to do, of course, we're partnering with each state has a vocational rehabilitation program, and sometimes we call it in my field, the best kept secret, which shouldn't be the best kept secret, but vocational rehabilitation is a federal program. It started when veterans were coming back from World War One and had physical disabilities, then had blindness. And it's expanded since the legislation of the Americans with Disabilities Act to incorporate all individuals with disabilities. So when some people hear me say, I don't have that significant of a disability, I don't think I should go to Voc Rehab. But vocational rehabilitation helps with assessment, helps to look at what interventions do you need to be successful. They also have the component with the job seeking and supports on a job. And supports on a job to prepare is helpful, but also training and so vocational rehabilitation looks at your training needs, which might be the University of Utah, it might be a junior at college. So I think that's really important, when you think about your transition plan, to talk with the school, get connected with vocational rehabilitation. And then if higher education is part of your education, your employment plan, you'll be coming here. And then we get to have more people on our team to help be successful in employment, which is the ultimate goal, and to have independence and and support yourself and and be fully in the community. So I think it just goes really hand in hand. So don't be afraid of that one either.

Donell Pons:

I love that you have that background to understand that connection to those services, because it's, it's services that I don't hear, like you said, best kept secret, right? It shouldn't be a secret where some

Christine Anderson:

people think, well, you know, I don't have a cognitive disability. I don't really need that piece. I guess I shouldn't really go to vocation rehabilitation. But what the other piece is, is the federal government wants to make sure students in transition have access to services so there's a specific part of their budget that's allocated just to help students in transition coming out of high school to college. So that's why I think that piece is so important, too. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

that's fantastic. If nobody gets anything out of this podcast, but that that would be a that's right there as a bonus. That would be lovely. And then, Christine, I know we got to wrap up, because you're busy too, but I want to have you take an opportunity to talk about your team at the University, because this has been critical for you, too, I think, is to find folks on the campus. So there, if there are others who are listening to you speak, and they're working at a campus somewhere, and they're thinking, Boy, this sounds so good. What she's able to do? How is she able to do that? Talk about some of the folks that you've been able to, you know, build relationships with to get to where you are. Oh,

Christine Anderson:

fantastic. Thank you for letting me have that opportunity. I am part of the health and wellness team, which, at first we were part of the disability inclusion. But I and I wondered at first, thinking, why did they move us to wellness? Well, I. Think we're part of the team for wellness, and I love it so much now I'm fully on board, because we're connected with the Counseling Center. We're connected with the Center for Campus wellness, where we talk about healthy lifestyles, healthy relationships, and that's all encompassing. When we talk about an individual who's moving on to adulthood. We got to have these skills. So we have the team of the Counseling Center, the wellness office, Student Health, certainly to help with medication management. If that's a piece or the overall wellness of I need to feel well enough to go to class. As well as recreation. Our campus recreation site is phenomenal. We have a brand new building for that, and there is a fabulous pool and climbing and nutrition classes and getting assessments on how to exercise. So all of that is really helpful. And they have adaptive recreation programs too, I should say, so all of this together to make a good wellness portfolio so students can be as successful as possible. So that's just my team of the wellness team, not to mention we have the tutoring center, and we have student success coaches on campus, and there's so many people here on campus, it's just making sure there's a hug to connect everybody together. Yeah, well, it sounds

Donell Pons:

fantastic. Christine, this has been such a great conversation, and I'm really hoping that what it does is not only inform, but there's also, I just got more excited and enthusiastic about thinking about the positive possibilities and potential. So that's also I appreciate this conversation so much. Oh, potential,

Christine Anderson:

right? That's the key. That's the key. That's what we want to see everyone reach their potential. Lovely. Thank you for letting me come and chat with you.

Donell Pons:

You bet I've enjoyed it, too. Thank you, Christine,

Christine Anderson:

thank you so much.

Narrator:

Thanks for joining us today. Literacy talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where reading momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.