Literacy Talks

Live from The Reading League Conference 2024—Highlights and Takeaways

• Reading Horizons • Season 6 • Episode 8

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In this special episode of Literacy Talks, our hosts—Stacy Hurst, Donell Pons, and Lindsay Kemeny—take listeners on a journey through The Reading League National Conference 2024. Beginning the conversation live from the event, they share key takeaways from Zaretta Hammond's inspiring keynote address and highlights from sessions covering topics like fluency instruction, comprehension strategies, and the importance of inclusive literacy practices. 

The hosts also discuss the vibrant conference atmosphere, the value of teacher-focused professional development, and their excitement for upcoming sessions. Listeners will gain insights into the latest trends and practical strategies in the field of literacy, all while experiencing the energy and camaraderie of The Reading League community.

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Narrator:

Welcome to Literacy Talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy Talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy dyslexia and special education. And Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let's talk literacy.

Stacy Hurst:

Well, welcome to this very unique episode of Literacy Talks. I'm Stacy Hurst. I'm the host, and I'm joined in real life today by Donell Pons and Lindsay Kemeny, and we are coming live from the reading league conference. It's the eighth one, 2024 if you're not here in person, we hope you are following on social media, because lots of great nuggets of knowledge are being dropped on there and lots of sightings. Lindsay Donell, how's the conference been for you? So far? Great.

Donell Pons:

I think we're loving it, all right? Lindsay, I'm getting a little lost. This venue is huge, right? I don't know if I'm the only one, but I've done a few tours of each floor. Well, you

Lindsay Kemeny:

know, because I've been with you, it's so great. It's so huge, it's really spacious. But, yeah, we're getting lost. And Donell and I were laughing so hard this morning because we're trying to look at their map. And I'm like, Okay, I am getting old because I cannot do any the tiny little numbers. And so we took our phone and, like, Zoom large, because I just kept thinking, I need a magnifying glass, yes. And then I just took the phone camera, zoom, zoom, zoom, and we figured out, well, it

Stacy Hurst:

may be unimportant to note, but I was the last one here, because and Donell, I love you. Your directions were exactly wrong. She said, right from the registration go downstairs. So I did, which is where lunch is, by the way, everybody is like, lining up for that. Well now, you know, yeah, but it was uncrowded on the way up here, because everybody's going to lunch. That was great. So let's just, I would just have our quick conversation today and talk about what we've experienced so far and what we're looking forward to. How does that sound now you guys were at the keynote, as was I zaretta Hammond, she's so inspiring. What were some of the key takeaways for you guys?

Donell Pons:

Yeah, it was really interesting. Lindsay and I both talked about how she's good for sound bites. She has like these sentences that you can take back and use. And she was saying reading is the epicenter of equity. That was an interesting one to kind of ponder on and think about, how about you? Lindsay,

Lindsay Kemeny:

yeah, I liked she was talking about liberating education requires marrying the science of reading with the science of learning. And I think that's really important, that we do talk about those more together, more often than we do. And I love one of the terms. I love that she used, that I haven't heard is word wealth. Yes, talking about that vocabulary, and, you know, that builds the learning power that word wealth. So I like that. Yeah, I

Stacy Hurst:

thought there were some really, again, in the in the area of sound bites, but I like how she weaved joy into the whole thing, yeah, and I love the intersection of cognition and language and learning. It was just really cool how she did that. I also things I've heard before, but somehow, when she said it in the context she did about in any other profession, if you were only 30% successful, that would not be okay. And yet, we've like normalized that. So I thought that was really interesting, too.

Donell Pons:

That practical way of looking at are you reading with your students? Have you heard them read those things that maybe you get so deep in you don't remember to do? But remember that that tells you a lot about your student. I thought that was good too.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, for sure,

Lindsay Kemeny:

one thing I kind of was questioning, maybe I don't know if I agree with, is that she was talking about that we have a tendency, like teachers, to over scaffold. Yeah, and I was just wondering what you guys think about that, because I actually feel like we have more of a tendency to under scaffold. And just think our students can do it and send them off to do independent and we need more of that guided practice, more of that scaffolding. I don't know.

Stacy Hurst:

Do you know? I can see why you're thinking that based on how she mentioned that today. I've heard her talk in another setting where she kind of elaborated on that, and she's worried that we're enabling students so that we don't remove the scaffold. Is what I think that she was alluding to before as well, because she said that we have to be careful, especially with we have to check our biases first, of course, but then also just make sure we're not assuming that a student is going to need a scaffold always, and make a plan. And to remove it.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, it's like an art, right? It's an art to know when they need the scaffold, really, and when to start releasing. So, yeah, that makes sense.

Donell Pons:

I was thinking of all the various settings that she gets to witness to, and thinking about, yes, in other settings, different classrooms, not scaffolding too soon as you say, to see what the student is capable of doing. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. We

Stacy Hurst:

just had this conversation with my students, actually, because they're in a position where they're assessing and specifically, this is my first literacy class, so they're assessing phonemic awareness, which I think is relatively easy to assess. They usually do okay, but we were talking about that because the assessment we're using builds in scaffolds and manipulatives for the assessment. And I said, don't use them because you want to see what the student can do alone. You use those scaffolds or those manipulatives if they need more support. So we've already i that resonated with me when she said that this morning, too. That's a good a good call out.

Lindsay Kemeny:

And I also like that she you know, she was talking about preparing our students for rigor, but also brought it back to us as educators. We, you know, what do we need to do to prepare ourselves for rigor and to find joy in our own productive struggle? Because she was talking about help the students, you know, find joy in the productive struggle. And I love turning that around on us. You know, we, probably, the three of us, all find joy in that, because that's our nature. But yeah, and

Stacy Hurst:

we've had some experience, we've been to some rodeos, and say, Yeah, I love that too. And I love that you mentioned that Lindsay, because I as a teacher, I actually, and to some people who don't understand, it would seem maybe just not right. I like to see my students productively struggle, because, as she said, then you know change is going to happen. Then you know it's going to but thinking about my own struggle, I'm going to be more aware of that. Yeah, yeah. And

Donell Pons:

that productive struggle to get to the next level. Because I'm always trying to improve my practice, knowing that when I improve my practice, my students get a better me, and thus a better outcome, right?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, in the classroom, there's definitely, I mean, there's a lot of struggle every year with different things that are thrown at us as teachers, and so I definitely can let it overwhelm me or frustrate me. And so I think it's a good call to say, Yes, I this is a struggle. Yes, we're learning a you know, we just adopted a new curriculum, or whatever. It's a struggle. But make it a productive one, and and make it help you be even better. Yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

and you do a good job. Lindsay in your presentations about your seven mighty moves, you don't come out of the gate and say you should do all these seven tomorrow. You're really good about baby steps timeline. Yeah, yeah, baby steps so,

Donell Pons:

and I appreciate too, Lindsay, you taking things away and being willing to try them, like on a Monday, you'll try, and we'll talk, right? You'll say, oh gosh, I gave this a try. That's fantastic.

Stacy Hurst:

Oh yeah, yeah, that is great. Then we had, we've only had one session after the keynote for today. So what session did you guys attend?

Donell Pons:

Well, I so I thankfully we all three attended something different, so that'll be interesting to talk about. I was in a session that was very crowded, and I hear they weren't all kind of equally crowded. Mine was pretty crowded. Folks were sitting on the ground. It was Melissa Orkin and Elizabeth Norton, and they did when practice isn't enough, providing explicit, systematic fluency instruction in upper elementary and it was actually really good. We got into some brain science with Elizabeth Norton, but then she also talked about the difference between and is there any boost for a student who does a repeated read versus just reading? And there isn't, that's what. Yeah. So in doing a comparison, there isn't and so allowing students to also do a wide read supported, obviously, with having been taught explicitly how to approach that read, but that is as productive as what we thought of as repeated reads, which was interesting, really, yeah, not to give up repeated reads because they do have their play, sure, but yeah, but that that was an interesting finding.

Stacy Hurst:

I'll be interested to take a deeper look at that. It's really cool. Lindsay, what did you attend?

Lindsay Kemeny:

I went to Molly Ness presentation on comprehension. She said, this is a new presentation she hasn't given before. It was called, the more you read, the more you know, best practices for comprehension instruction. And she, you know, kind of went through her journey on her thoughts about comprehension. And she started off by talking about the Durkin study, which they you're familiar with, observed, you know, 4000 minutes of teaching, and found that comprehension instruction was observed less than 1% at that time. The majority of the time was spent on assessments. And isn't that what you do? When you think about comprehension, you read the text, and then you ask your students questions at the end. But she talked about something that I briefly mentioned. In a recent episode we had where, you know, I talk a lot about how we have this tendency to over Correct, yeah, and that's and the term she used was overboard. Yes, we want to build knowledge. And, you know, knowledge building curriculum, great, we want to build knowledge, but don't go overboard with knowledge at the expense of strategies, because it's both and you still need strategy work. So she, she was like, yes, knowledge matters, but it's not enough. And she kind of, you know, shared her thinking and how it's shifted and kind of evolved over the years, and talked about, you know, leaning into some of those strategies that do have a lot of effects, like she talked about, like stopping to summarize what you've read, doing think louds. How often do we model our thinking aloud to students as we read, helping them kind of see, kind of peeling back the carton, helping them see how you are making sense of the text.

Stacy Hurst:

There's a lot of power in that. I love moliness. Her book is great. And I think to those of us who are trained in balance literacy, we had a rich approach to those read alouds and think alouds, but I really like how she aligns it more with what we know to fit into cognitive science as well and language development, it's a little more intentional, I want to say, and more targeted. So yeah, that's really cool. And I didn't know that was a new presentation, or I might have chosen that one. Although I loved the one I went to, I went to Dr Ryan Lee James, and they talked about dialect, different differences, and variation is the word, but it was so powerful. One thing that I took a picture of, and I know this is just a side note, we have access to all the slides, which are great. The app is working well for me this year. How about you guys? Yeah, okay,

Lindsay Kemeny:

I haven't okay. I was gonna mention I love that they still gave us our paper program like because I love having the paper program and haven't gone into the app as much. Yes,

Stacy Hurst:

I understand. Well, we'll wrap up with the those kind of things, I guess, about the comments. So they were, they highlighted UNESCO's definition of literacy, right? And when we talk about literacy, I know we've said it includes writing, speaking, they have a list speaking, thinking, creating and reading and writing, so really expanding what we do in the classroom. And a big highlight was we're so focused on skills that we don't attend to the structure, which I know zaretta Hammond has talked about before too, like the structure of the classroom, or the whole child in mind and who they are when they come to us, and how all of those things matter. And then what is good reiterated something that we've heard often at the reading leg conference is what is good for all kids and harmful for None, right? That you have to be inclusive about differences in dialect so and I think Dr Hammond mentioned that this morning a little bit as well, speaking

Lindsay Kemeny:

and listening, speaking and listening. I think we've overlooked those for so long, and, you know, we just had recorded an episode on oral language, and it's just, you know, we can't take that for granted. Yeah. And

Stacy Hurst:

Dr Ryan Lee James is a speech and language pathologist, so she that's the lens that she looks at literacy through. And she gave us a whole list of things to look for, for students who might have some language processing issues, and they're very practical, like, if they can't follow multi step directions, or they have a hard time understanding what you mean when you say, Do you have a question, if they just make a statement, right? Just those kind of things. It was really good, and I had to duck out just a little bit early, so I had time to get lost based on Daniel's directions.

Donell Pons:

Happened. Now

Lindsay Kemeny:

we understand the map, but how does that relate?

Stacy Hurst:

That was my I was looking at it going well. They have designed and communicated each floor brilliantly, but how do you get to the floor? Yeah, yes,

Donell Pons:

you know one thing we didn't mention when we started out at the keynote this morning, they did have us have a moment of silence for the folks who've been impacted by the hurricane, and we are in the region, true. And so just being thoughtful of that it has been a presence here at the conference. I remember up to the conference, checking in to make sure we still didn't have the conference, and just being mindful that even though we're having a great time in this part of the state, there are still folks who are really suffering, and just to be mindful of that and help where you can, yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

that's impactful. Yeah, great. And speaking to segue to a lighter topic, the weather. The three of us are from Utah, and when we landed and oh, I got here on. Tuesday, Monday. Thank you. Sometime this week, it was actually cooler here in North Carolina than it was in Utah, I know, and it's mid October, but today I feel like the weather here is delightful, so pleasant. It's fall like

Lindsay Kemeny:

So was your session packed this morning. No, it wasn't. How about yours? Because both of ours, yeah, we had tons of people sitting on the floor, and I was just like, Oh no, like, because this is such a huge venue, but I'm just worried that there's not enough breakout sessions. I don't know. We'll see, but maybe it was just our two, just our two, the ones we chose and the others were fine.

Stacy Hurst:

It did make it easier to decide where to go. There's fewer choices. There's a chair,

Lindsay Kemeny:

yeah, oh, that's true. When you're looking through them, it is sometimes, yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

yeah, like, Oh,

Lindsay Kemeny:

I wonder, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stacy Hurst:

Speaking of which, what are you guys looking forward to? Maybe next, or even today and tomorrow? I'm gonna have to pull up my really

Donell Pons:

good choices on the docket. Carolyn Strom is doing understanding, the early reading, brain building, capacity, not compliance. Sounds like a really.

Stacy Hurst:

Have you seen that one before? I recommend it. She's great at describing all of those neuro connectivities. Yeah, she uses something. Is it called Brain city or something? I think so, yeah, it's a good, yeah, it's a great one. Really, really enjoy that

Lindsay Kemeny:

I'm excited for Kay widge Kumar, even though I have taken her knowledge acquisition and transformation like, course, I'm still going to go to her session as a little refresher, and I'm excited to see her live nice.

Stacy Hurst:

I love how her name just rolled off your tongue. Oh, yeah, practice,

Lindsay Kemeny:

practice, but I've heard it, yeah. And Elsa Cardenas, Hagan, I'm going to go to hers and Dale Webster's on structured literacy. I

Stacy Hurst:

got to learn from both of them yesterday. So we had a stars higher education summit, and we got to hear from the keynotes were Dr Carr, Cardenas Hagan, and Wes Hoover, Dr Hoover, and he talked about the simple view of reading, and I noticed that he has a session based on that. I do recommend it, because it will help refine your to your point about going to something you're already familiar with, and you're just refining knowledge. I found it very valuable. It was so insightful. So

Lindsay Kemeny:

and I'm speaking tomorrow, so fingers crossed. Everything goes well, my laptop doesn't die or anything. They actually, actually, they have computers for us. I guess I don't have to worry about that

Stacy Hurst:

so far. Well, my the session I was just in, they had a little issue with the the sound for a minute, but it got fixed right away. So I think you'll be fine. Oh, great. And then

Donell Pons:

you two will you two will appreciate this. We've been doing a little series on dyslexia. The first one was my husband. I sat down in a session. Someone said, Where's your husband? Yeah,

Lindsay Kemeny:

he's so helpful. We talked about that big sky,

Stacy Hurst:

yeah, yeah. And we probably mentioned it multiple times, because we do love when Curtis comes. In fact, this morning would have been handy, because I thought Donnell was in my choice B session, and she wasn't. So I you could have sent him there and Curtis go to this one. Yeah, darn it. We'll have to bring him to the next one I'm looking forward to this afternoon. Dr Jamie peebler is talking about building your scientifically based ELA block. And I'm always interested in that

Lindsay Kemeny:

she's great. Yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

she really is very knowledgeable and practical in her approach to things. I also, yeah, that's something that I think never gets old, because there's so many ways to organize an ELA block. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

I'm looking forward to that. And Alex Shelton this afternoon, students supporting secondary students, literacy outcomes, using evidence based culturally and linguistically responsive instruction. That's a lot. Yeah, I'm expecting a lot.

Lindsay Kemeny:

The bar has been set. Sense.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah. And then there is one that looks like it's focused on higher ed this afternoon as well structured teacher education. So I think that'll be interesting. Well, fun.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, we'll probably have to, maybe we'll do a little wrap up and share some other thoughts at the end of the conference.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah. And I can end this episode by saying, I mean, we're only in day one, not even midway through the day, but I have loved seeing people that we know and catching up and seeing them in real life, hugs and high fives, and it's

Lindsay Kemeny:

a good feeling. It's like everyone, well, we're all united in purpose, yeah. And we love the reading League. They're such an amazing organization, and it's really fun to see, you know, how they're growing, and all the different state chapters that we have represented here and and you know, we didn't mention also, they've always been in Syracuse in the past, and this is the first time they had the conference somewhere else. We're in North Carolina, and it. It's, it's great because it's a huge venue and there's plenty of space. Yeah, when we went to breakfast today, like, I was a little bit, oh no, what? What's this gonna look like? It was wonderful. Tons of room for everyone. There weren't any long lines. So, yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

I got at lunch. Thank you again. Don't know, um, it looked really good, too. Like, yeah, totally. We're

Lindsay Kemeny:

gonna head down down there now.

Donell Pons:

Oh yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

yeah, and we do have a meet and greet as well today. Don't forget that I don't want to be meeting and greeting everyone by myself. Or maybe I do, I don't know. Um, yeah. The other thing I wanted to mention is just those, those conversations that you have with people. I have met so many nice people, and you're right, Lindsay, we all have that in common. So it's an easy and ready conversation to talk about literacy last night, and you guys witnessed this. Tyson Smith, who is the CEO of Reading Horizons, and I haven't seen each other in person, I would say, years, actually, and we happen to be staying in the same hotel. You two were just checking in, and you left to go to Dr Stephanie stoller's reading science academy reception. And I literally talked to Tyson almost the whole time you were gone. When you texted that you were back, I had just gone up to my room. So in that conversation, of course, we were passionately talking about a lot of things, but a woman came up to us and said, I just want to tell you thank you for your passion and this conversation like I can tell you both care about literacy and Tyson said, it's our life. That's what he was saying to her. She was walking away,

Lindsay Kemeny:

it is our life.

Stacy Hurst:

Well, said we pretty much, yeah, it's our life. This is our life, and we love it. So yeah, to the reading league people, I and we will, we'll do a wrap up. But, man, impressive. This is just a great conference. In my lastedness, I'm creating new words now, is that word wealth or just not. Anyway, I ran into the his last name is Macaulay. I believe he's the social media director for the reading League. Such a delightful person. And everybody from the reading League, you'd think they would be stressed and anxious, because this is it. They're just so calm and helpful and smiling, and it's great. Well, it's good to have this conversation. Thanks so much, guys for joining us all and interrupting our lunch and having this talk, but it's good to have and we will. We'll follow up with a recap after we've experienced the rest of the conference. Any parting words or thoughts? Nope, we'll just continue on. Have a good time. Okay, awesome. Then hopefully you will be joining us soon for the recap.

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Stacy Hurst:

Okay, welcome to part two of the reading League episode of literacy talks, the reading league conference. I should say my name is Stacy Hurst. I'm the host. I'm joined by Dan l pons and Lindsey Kemeny, as I was for the first episode. The difference is we were all together then and now we are back home after the reading league conference. So we came to you live from the reading league on day one of the conference. Is that, right? Guys at lunch, at the lunch break, and like I said, now we're home, so we're hoping to talk about the rest of the conference, and we're going to let Donna lead this conversation. Great.

Donell Pons:

Thank you, Stacy. So just a reminder, we were in Charlotte, North Carolina. It was beautiful. People were so nice, and the venue was beautiful too. There were a lot of people there at one point, I think they said something like 2500 that conference has grown exponentially every year, and it was a very large venue, and they did their best to accommodate us. They did a great job of getting us fed as well, some delicious meals. The hospitality was great. It was a little crowded at times in some of the rooms, I think we commented on that the first day, and it didn't get any better those second second day and so on. And so maybe that's a thought or two. Is to think about those sessions where folks really want to get inside and hear what folks have to say. The problem becomes is that you take a seat on the floor and then folks don't really want you sitting on the floor. So just something to think about. We had a lot of really great we talked a little bit about. Introduction, and who gave that the first day, the keynote in one of the first sessions. And so we'll be talking a little bit about the rest of Wednesday, and then on to Thursday, and some of the sessions that were given, and there were some great things that happened. So I'm going to toss it right back out and say Lindsay first, and then Stacy will give you a minute to think about it or two, because I know you've been rushing around today, but Lindsay, give us a little thought about some of the sessions the rest of that day Wednesday that stood out to you.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Okay, I don't remember which were which day, right? Yeah, but I did go and this. Maybe this was day one. I went to Jamie Pevler's session. I am a fan of her she just just has such a wonderful presence, and she's so knowledgeable. And something I really liked that she said Is she used this analogy about following your curriculum. She related it to like following an atlas. And she talked about how, you know it's following your curriculum is like following an atlas. You follow it. It kind of gives you the guide of where you're going, but it doesn't tell you what to do when things go wrong. And she, you know, related that to a GPS, you know, instead of that, like paper Atlas, right? A GPS, if you take a wrong turn, it's just like, oh, rerouting, and it gets you back on how to get on track. And so I really liked that analogy with a new curriculum, especially because, you know, in my district, we are, we just adopted a new curriculum, so we're trying to navigate and figure that out, and it doesn't tell us what to do when things go wrong, when the student doesn't, you know, doesn't understand, or you have to reteach something, and that's like on us, sometimes we have to go off that script a little bit to make it work. And so I really enjoyed her presentation. And then I went to Dr widja kamars, which I think in part one, I was saying how I was looking forward to her session. I really find it fascinating listening to her talking about her work with the knowledge, acquisition, acquisition and transformation framework, which, you know, she describes, like the studies she's done, and it's really amazing the results they are getting from teaching students about text structure and finding the main idea by using the text structure. So I really enjoyed her presentation, even though I've taken her free online course, which is free right now, it's literacy, I think it's literacy.io. I wrote it down somewhere, if anyone wants to look that up. And I just want to say that something I really appreciate about her presentation is that she started by giving a shout out to some of the teachers who are using her framework in their schools. She had them stand up. She talked about the amazing results they are getting. And I just love, you know, we talk about valuing teachers and how sometimes we need to, I don't know, maybe do that more. Or, you know, I really feel like she had a nod to teachers, saying, hey, they are doing the hard work, and they are here so that after the presentation, you can come and talk to them exactly about what they were doing in the classroom to get these amazing results. So I appreciated that,

Donell Pons:

you know, Stacy or Lindsay, you and I talked about this a bit, having teachers be the focus of this. That's what we love about this conference so much. The Reading League is this is really teacher focused and and we hope they don't lose that right? That's so important is to have this really great place for teachers to come, to be able to have that acknowledgement, and then also to have that relationship with individuals who are doing a lot of this work on the outside in research, and having teachers who are doing the work in schools, and having them meet and have discussion. I think it's great. It's such a vibrant conference that way. And Stacy, how about you that same day? Tuesday? Well,

Stacy Hurst:

I actually went to Jamie peeblers as well. I also am a fan, and I know her personally. She's equally delightful as an individual as she is as a presenter. Very knowledgeable. And that room was crowded. There were people sitting on the floor. I was lucky, because I found friends at the last minute who made somebody scoot. But she did a great job. One thing is that I listened to this, a very similar, if not the same, presentation a few weeks before she had done one for the reading league. I can't remember which chapter, but I did. I learned just as much the second time. That's how. And she's such a good presenter. She keeps people engaged. She's very entertaining and funny, but also very knowledgeable. One thing that I made note of both times is and then a way to. Know that if a student has mastered a skill, and she talked about the fact that skill mastery occurs along a continuum of phases, and I really think that there's a lot here for teachers. So she talks about the first phase being acquisition, then fluency, then generalization, then adaptation, and she goes into detail about each of those phases, and they they aren't hers, but she does give credit, of course, to the person who researched that, and I can't remember who that is right now, but she also talked a lot about cognitive load. She just did a really great job. And then talking about elevating teachers of all kinds, right, not just in elementary or high school, but also in college. And so the second session I went to for the third that day was two professors from Canada who had revamped their literacy courses, and they were getting such great results. And I got some really good ideas. Another. There were a lot of professors, of course in that session, and we all had a really rich conversation afterwards for that. But they really did change their practice from balanced literacy. They were teaching three cueing founders and Pinel, and totally aligned it. So a lot of respect for them and for the results that they got. And then that afternoon probably one of my favorite sessions, because I really think that we need to highlight success stories when we're talking about implementation, specifically, of the reading, of science, of reading. One thing that we know you can have a teacher that is fantastic and doing great job in the classroom, but if you don't have systemic supports, those students won't continue on that trajectory from one class to the next. So I went to Margaret girl Goldberg's Goldberg session called differentiation, done right? And she is someone else that I really admire, because she is, I feel like she is so good at implementation, whether it's in a classroom or a school. She's serving as a literacy coach, and she was there with her principal, and they talked about a very specific format, walk to read, but they highlighted their progression, and it wasn't overnight, and they were really real and very forthcoming with how they made those changes. And I just think the more we can replicate things like that, the better off our students are going to be. And their data looked so good, and I was sitting next to a district administrator from Illinois, and we also had some really great conversations around that presentation. So Wednesday was a win. That was just such good stuff.

Donell Pons:

One thing we didn't mention is the days were packed. So when we're getting to that last session, these are going from 445, to six. That's the last session. So I imagine, I mean, you're really committed when you're making it through the full day, just so that folks know how much time you're putting in when you're there. One of the sessions I attended on that day was Carolyn Strom, and she does a lot with talking about what's happening in the brain when students are learning to read. And she has some really kind of student friendly, even teacher friendly, language around what's going on in the brain. So rather than using the terminology, she comes up with more user friendly terminology for things. The only challenge I had, and again, I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's not the first time I've heard her speak her. The room was packed, deservedly so, but one of the concerns I have is that teachers will spend time trying to teach their students some of this brain stuff that's going on as they read, which just isn't good instructional time, and that's the only concern that I had, is that making it friendly for a teacher to understand is not the same as this is. So you can tell your students and you can have your students learning this while you should be teaching phonics or something else that's really usable. So that's the only concern that I had, is we might start seeing that show up, and it just isn't good value for the instructional time for students, having them do the things they need to learn would be better. But again, a really good presentation. Really good presentation. And then I also attended with you too, Stacy Margaret Goldberg in talking about that school wide intervention and reading program. It was fantastic. And I agree with you how principal, having her principal there, one of the things that stood out to me was, not only was he there to help with the presentation, clearly, he's supportive. He learned right alongside his teachers. That was the other piece that was very clear. He learned right alongside his teacher showed up to those same classes. He was asking his teachers to take, showed up to the same data meetings. He's asking his teachers to show up to in order to discuss data. So anything he's asking his teachers to do, he's willing to do as well. And so not only was that walk to read, but he also walked the walk, the talk. He showed up and did all of the things and that was really important. She had terrific leadership too. And you're right, she's very clear. What I loved about Margaret Goldberg's presentation is she's so clear on the pieces. Oftentimes, some of it's kind of hazy, but she was very clear on okay, this is what we did first. This is what we did. Next. Oh, this was something I was hoping would work out. It just didn't. Here's why I loved that too. That candidness about gosh, I was really excited about this certain aspect just didn't work. That was terrific. So a terrific day there, I think, for presentations. Moving on to Thursday, bright and early, we started off with, it wasn't a keynote to begin the day. Rather, we started with a session that first one was 815 we got right off the ground and running. And so I'll link back over to Lindsay and have you tell me what you attended that day. What stood out?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Okay, I really loved it might have been my favorite session of the whole conference. I don't know it's hard to choose, but I really love Sharon Vaughn. I was really excited to listen to her, and she did a great job. And she was talking about different ways to intensify intervention, and she was talking about the importance of aligning your tier one and tier two with your intervention. So your intervention in tier two aligns with what is being taught in tier one. And it was really fascinating listening to her talk about her studies, the studies she did, where they just started with a comprehension intervention, and then they studied it where, you know, it was aligned tier one and two, doing the intervention in just tier two and not tier one, and then, like a business as usual, was the third. And just clearly aligning that comprehension intervention in tier two, while it was also being taught in Tier One was, you know, very significant results, like, much better than the other, the other things they were comparing it with. So I just thought, gosh, that's exciting, and maybe something we need to look more into it. Just, it can get complicated, right? Because you have different programs, maybe in tier two or two tier three, than what's happening in tier one. But it can be really powerful if we align those things, if there's, like, an evidence based right? Of course, if we don't have a strong tier one that doesn't follow the science of reading, we're not going to get good results by double dosing that. But yeah, it was. It was really great presentation. And

Donell Pons:

how about you? Stacy, well,

Stacy Hurst:

I don't know if we can go right to the keynote, but I thought that was really good. There we had Dr Erie, and then Barbara Forman, and I thought that was a good pairing, because Dr airy really set the stage with the research, and then Dr Forman talked about how to implement that research, and I thought Each brought a lot of good information to the table. What did you guys think of that?

Donell Pons:

Yeah, I think it's always interesting. When Erie does a I'm going to do air quotes here if you can't see me, but maybe you can presentation. It's reading. And folks don't, Stacy, you told me that years ago, before I'd actually heard her. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever, she might look at her notes a couple of times. No, she's reading from her notes. So if people aren't expecting it, you can see there's always people who don't expect it. And when she's in 1015, minutes in or 20 and folks are realizing, Oh, she's going to read this. That's really interesting. It can be different because you're not used to that, right, as a presentation. Yeah, it's always really good though. Yeah,

Lindsay Kemeny:

it's so I had someone, a friend said this to me, and I'm like, Oh, this is the perfect way she says, this is, like, this is like, going to a Cold Play concert and they're playing yellow like, that's just what they're known for. You go to listen to Dr Linnea airy, and she, you know, what she is explaining is, like, the core of who she is, you know, and I was just like, that is so great. That's a great way to look at it. So it was, you know, really neat to be able to hear that straight from the source. Literally,

Stacy Hurst:

it's like she's reading a research paper. So you're listening to a research paper reading read. But then we were discussing the fact that she is not a teacher, she's a researcher, and she teaches, obviously at a university level, she at some point, but her training isn't in teaching, it's it's just the purest form of research that you can get. So I thought that was really interesting to note. It

Donell Pons:

was interesting. Barbara foreman, when she put up as part of her presentation, had done a comparison of text by some of the large publishing publishers of text, and what they were finding is is that the text available for students that followed any sort of alignment with how they might learn in a phonics program. Was completely out of alignment. So kids were being presented with text, they might have a scope and sequence for how they were learning, say, patterns and things, but then the text itself wasn't following any kind of pattern whatsoever. So I thought that was interesting, and there needs to be more alignment. And Barbara really brought that up and made the case. I thought it was great. The other one, back to the Sharon Vaughn, because that's the one I attended with you, Lindsay, and it was really good, is she said some things about improving treatment effects, and she gave four things I think are really important. One, you might need to change the dosage. Two, you might need to change the environment. Three, you might need attention and engagement needs to be looked at for the students. Four, modified delivery of instruction. I thought those were so they sound so simple, but those are four things right away to look at if you're not getting the kind of results that you expect from again, you've chosen a good program, you've researched, you made sure. But if you're not getting those results that you want take a look at those four things. First, change your dosage, perhaps change your environment. Is there? Attention, engagement, modify delivery and instruction, if need be. So that was really great too. And having those tears talk to each other so important, made me think of my own son who, when we were in those early stages of trying to figure out how to help him become a reader, he had been introduced to no less than four different programs, each with different language about how they taught those basic skills for the little guy who was struggling so hard that made things even more difficult, that led to a lot of our struggles too. So I thought that was interesting. And we Lindsay, you're not going to get away that easily. You were one of the presenters.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yes, yes, I was. Tell

Donell Pons:

us how it went. Your session was well attended. You were the last one of the day. No one loves drawing that card.

Lindsay Kemeny:

And if you like, I talked to so many people that day because I was, like, about that, because I was so worried, I was just thinking, Oh my gosh. Like, out of all the time slots, I'm the very last time slot of the very last day, you know, and so, and I already was feeling, you know, a little like, whoo, like, a lot of information is being thrown at you. It's easy to get a little overwhelmed. And I was just really thought, oh my gosh, will anyone be there at my session? And then I ran into Mitchell Brookins before I was going to speech, going to speak. And I just love him. And he really just, like, boosted my spirit, because he was just telling me, you know, if, if, if, even if, you know, whoever comes really wants to be there, and they are there to hear something. And he's talking about, you know, like, even if one person shows up, you give it your all for that one person. And I was just like, Oh, thank you. Like, he just really, like, gave me so much confidence going in, but it would the room was packed. The room was packed. I was like, so just, I mean, really honored that so many people came, even though we were all so tired. And it was, I mean, that was just, it was the best crowd. I have to say it was the best crowd. They were amazing. And then my favorite part was just at the end, because I just had, you know, a line of people that were talking to me afterwards, and people crying with me, laughing with me, explaining how something I said changed something. One person had said, Hey, I just emailed you a year ago, and now this is what's happened. And I'm like, This is amazing. And it was so wonderful. I just felt like, I don't know, just it was just so special meeting all these wonderful educators that I was just so impressed with. So it was, it was just such a neat way to end the conference, because this conference in general, I mean, you just, you feel the love. It sounds so cheesy, but you go and you know, you're like, united in purpose, and we can set aside, you know, our differences and, you know, talk about what's best for kids. And so it was a wonderful way to end the conference. It was just really meaningful to me. I'll totally remember that. And meeting all those beautiful, beautiful people, it was amazing.

Donell Pons:

And you know, Lindsay, I'm impressed, because oftentimes I get to stand next to you, as somebody says, Oh, Lindsay, Lindsay, and comes up to talk to you. And I love that, because it really is teachers for teachers, about teachers, which is great, and that's exactly what you want to see. It's such a terrific environment. Loved it, and so many great stories, as you say, people so genuine, so interested, so engaged, and also appreciative, not only of being having the recognition, but also having some resources, which is terrific. And so I agree with you, it was fantastic, and I'm so glad your session was well attended. Right before your session, there was one that I loved to see too at this conference, and I want to see more of it. And it was a panel of pediatricians who are interested in. Supporting the science of reading and doing what they can do to help see if they can be a part of screening, be a part of helping their families find resources. And I think that is a really important organization to involve in this with all of us. And so I was pleased to see them at this conference, and I again, I'm hoping to see them at others, and I'm hoping to figure out a way in which all of us can get together in this space to get more people, to get screening, to get intervention as soon as possible. So I thought that was great as well. Yeah,

Stacy Hurst:

and Lindsay, we wanted to come to your session, but we had a plane to catch, and we had to leave the previous session early, and I was in Pam Kastner, Aaron, Amy and Tamra Eisenberg session, which was fantastic. They were talking about getting started with structured literacy in grades three through five. And Pam Castor, apparently is retired, but she says she's failed at retirement. So I thought that was great, because she's always so willing to share great things. And then on the same note, because I know Donell to her own horn, but there were so many people when I was with Donell that came up to her close to tears or not, but just so grateful for her podcast episodes on dyslexia. So many of them mentioned the one with Curtis. If you haven't listened to that, please go back and listen. It is so powerful. But I think we every 10 feet, somebody said something to her

Donell Pons:

that is very sweet of you. I think my favorite comment was sitting in a session, a woman leans over to me and very gently, she says, so is Curtis? Here? Is your husband? Here? Did he come? As if the two of us now travel together as a pair? I thought it was great.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, we all miss Curtis. We love him. At conferences, there were sessions we would have liked to send him to. Dang it, some of my most memorable conferences are with Curtis.

Donell Pons:

That's so true. He does do well at a conference. We've talked about that before. Yes, again, if you can't hear through through this podcast, we had a great time. We really did. We had a really good time at yet another reading league conference. It's fantastic. We're also getting in our own state. We're going to be having a chapter here that will be official soon. It'll be great to have one in our state. Many states have them, and that's terrific too to be involved with. Is your local chapter, and then this national organization that puts on, hands down, a really good conference. That was just fantastic. And they're always very accommodating, very helpful and really thoughtful about who they have on their program. That is that's demonstrated by you see who the speakers are. They're trying to fill out different areas, reach into spaces that maybe you don't have a lot of background in, and try to help you there by bringing folks to the conference. I think it was great. And so we're very appreciative once again, another great year at the reading league conference. And as you could hear in some of our comments, we thought they were fantastic people. We also want to acknowledge at the end of this podcast too. We did it in the first one as well, that we are aware of some folks who are in North Carolina and across the country in different areas that were impacted by the hurricanes. And they acknowledge that at the conference. And we want to acknowledge that again, that even though we had a lovely time in your state, it was fantastic to be there in Charlotte, we also realized that there are folks who are still struggling and need help. We want to recognize that, but it was a fantastic time.

Lindsay Kemeny:

I was impressed how many people I met from North Carolina and and from Asheville, even that were there talk about dedication, I would say. And next year it's going to be in Chicago, the reading league conference. So watch for that. I think you can register right now. It's open. It's october 2025, in Chicago, Illinois. So, yeah, fingers,

Stacy Hurst:

another great one, yeah. Well, thank you guys for the conversation for part two, and thanks for everybody who's listening to this episode and to all of our friends who we got to spend time with at the reading league conference. We mentioned that in the first episode too, but I really loved it this time, that aspect of it, seeing people that we work so hard with but you may not see on a regular basis, it was great. So thank you all for joining us for this episode. We hope you'll join us for the next episode of Literacy Talks.

Narrator:

Thanks for joining us today. Literacy Talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where reading momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.