Literacy Talks

Dyslexia Talks: Empowering Students with Mentorship and Community Support

• Reading Horizons • Season 6 • Episode 14

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This episode provides a powerful and inspiring look into the work of the Joseph James Morelli Legacy Foundation, which supports high school and college students with dyslexia who wish to pursue degrees in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) fields. Co-founder Dr. Barbara Wirostko Morelli shares her personal story of navigating the challenges of dyslexia with her own son, Joseph, and the motivation behind creating the foundation in his memory. Listeners hear from scholarship recipient Amy Mabile and mentor Jake Sussman, who offer firsthand accounts of the life-changing impact of the foundation's mentorship, community support, and financial assistance. 

The episode delves into the unique obstacles students with dyslexia face in the education system, the importance of early intervention and proper documentation, and the power of resilience, self-advocacy, and finding one's voice to overcome adversity and achieve academic and personal success.

This is the final installment of the Literacy Talks miniseries Dyslexia Talks, hosted by Donell Pons.

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Narrator:

Welcome to literacy talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacey Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donnell pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia and special education, and Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let's talk literacy.

Donell Pons:

Welcome everyone. I'm Donell Pons, and I'm here today with an extraordinary guest, Dr Barbara Wirostko Morelli, MD, Barb is co founder of the Joseph James Morelli Foundation created in memory and in honor of her son Joseph James Morelli, the foundation supports high school and college students with dyslexia who wish to pursue a degree In a science technology, engineering or mathematics field and Barb's story is nothing short of remarkable. The foundation really does things that are inspirational, and it underscores the power of resilience, love and focus. I'm so excited to welcome Dr Wirostko Morelli and introduce all of you to the Foundation's remarkable work. So I'm going to start off, and I'm just going to begin with talking it to my favorite person, which is a pleasure for me today, Dr, Barbara Wirostko, and we've known each other for quite a while, and we'll kind of get into that maybe a little bit later. And you're one of my favorite people in the whole world, besides having this excellent background. Being a physician, you're a caring, professor, mentor, parent, friend. I mean, what don't you do? And then this tremendous community advocate, and that's the piece that we'll be hitting on quite a bit today. And you also have dyslexia, so I want parents right away and folks listening to know that you really understand. Not only are they going to be eating some great information because of your background, but you really do understand this pathway and the experience that folks are having. And you know personally, what it's like to do college with dyslexia, I think that's very important. And so for the visuals to Barb's story, you have a great TED talk, and I'm just going to put that right in there. We'll have it in the show notes, so that folks can right away if they want to know that you have a great TED Talk that highlights your story really well, and I highly recommend it. And I also think though, Barb, I want you to start off by telling us about how the Foundation came to be, and that will give listeners a good idea of your personal story, because that's going to be in there. Obviously they're so they're linked and the incredible work that you do supporting college students, and within that, I'm sure Barb will have a moment to share how we met and kind of how we started encouraging each other. But why don't we start there, and have you kind of tell us about the foundation? How did it start?

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

So first of all, thank you, Donell. And I feel like I'm going to start crying, right? Because, yes, we've go back quite a quite a few years, and the feeling is mutual. You're one of my favorite people, and I love exactly what you do in trying to champion this whole area as well. So Joseph, as people may or may not, realize, was severely dyslexic. He was diagnosed late as a high school student in my TED talk, I talk about how we were told that he was not high school material coming from an excellent public school system in New York, and we had to fight to get him his accommodations. We watched him go from failing all his classes to getting high honors once he got accommodations, and it really changed who he was, from the sense of it gave him a purpose. It gave himself confidence, it made him feel good about himself. And it all came down to better grades, which is so crazy when we take a step back and we think about how we become so wrapped up and how people define who they are based on their grades and where they go to college and what their careers are. We saw the gift that accommodations gave him. We saw how he became happy again. He his depression went away, his self esteem rose. So when he was killed during a camping he was camping with his friends in West Yellowstone in September, September 6, 2014, and when we got the news, of course, everybody wants to reach out and do something. One of the things that Joseph really enjoyed was being out in the outdoors, and he was very much about sustainability. And you don't know what to do at the moment. It's it's paralyzing, but everybody wants to help. And all I kept thinking was, Joseph would really hate people to spend hundreds of dollars on flour. Dollars that are going to get thrown out. So a good friend of mine said, Have you thought about putting together a scholarship in his honor? And Park City Community Foundation was available to us that weekend. Spoke to the the executive director, and she said, Sure, we can help, and we put together a foundation. Had no idea what I was doing, but I did know there had to be other kids like Joseph who were struggling to succeed in school, had learning challenges and were going undiagnosed and had to fight the school system. We had to hire a lawyer, we had to pay for testing because the school system didn't want to recognize that he actually had dyslexia, as they said, they would have picked up on it back when he was in grammar school. And the first year, we thought we did really well, because we had eight applicants, and we gave away, I think it was maybe like $2,000 and to two kids this past year. We are now in our ninth year. We had 263 applicants, and we're going to be awarding $125,000

Donell Pons:

Wow, that's fantastic. And Barb, you covered a lot of ground in telling your story. And I just want to hit some high points and highlight some things for folks who are listening, because they're important. And one of those things is, that Joseph, your son, you had been through so much together, and finally, at this moment in Joseph's life, things seem to be coming together for him. And that really was, I think that's really been a key to the foundation, is to provide an opportunity for other students to get to that moment that Joseph was able to have, where things came together. He had the support that he needed. So I think that's one of those awesome threads that runs through your story. The other piece barb that we've got to discuss a little bit is that dyslexia was running through your family, and in fact, you were familiar with it, yet here you have a child. Because this is not unfamiliar for folks who have dyslexia to also have a child with dyslexia and not know quite what to do. So tell us a little bit about that piece.

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

So I actually did not realize that I had dyslexia until after Joseph was diagnosed. And both my husband and I are physicians, we trusted the school system. We did not know why Joseph was failing all his classes in particular. He was really struggling with a foreign language and anything that was written and, you know, so history English, but he always accelerated in math. And here he was in high school, and he was starting to fail math as well. And it turns out it was word problems. So it was actually our pediatrician back in New York, whose son is also dyslexic, she said to me, I think Joseph has a learning challenge. So again, we didn't know. We didn't know what dyslexia was. We didn't understand it. All we knew is that Joseph was really, really bright, and his grades were not representative of his intelligence. And once he was diagnosed, and once we were able to see and I learned a lot of the characteristics, I took a step back and I said, Oh, my God, that was me. That was me struggling to spell, to write. I mean, in sixth grade, we had last will and testament because we were graduating from sixth grade going into middle school, and the teacher left, you know, items for each of the students, and I was left the dictionary because I could not spell and I could not learn a second language. It was painful for me. And then even into medical school, I would have to rewrite the textbooks, and I would never go back and actually review my notes, but rewriting it, writing it, I realized, like Joseph, was that visual. Was that tactile, that visual, and also saying it and reading it to myself was how I taught myself how to learn. And interestingly enough, I just had a recent student, one of our applicants. We'll meet Donnell as well. In his application, he talks about how he rewrites his textbooks onto note cards, and he doesn't necessarily need to go back and review them, but it's just the act of writing it and seeing it is enough for him to study. And I had to reach out to him, and I had to email him and say, Oh my God, that's exactly how I taught myself. And then, out of our four children, Christina, our youngest, also struggled with reading and I we were able to pick it up. We were able to get her support and tutoring and teaching her to read through the Wilson method as a as a kindergartner, because we recognized all the all the signs, yeah,

Donell Pons:

but. Gosh, your story is so compelling, and it hits on a lot of things. And I know so many people are going to identify with very lots of pieces of what you're talking about. I want to also have you emphasize again, the difficulty that you had in the public school system getting support for Joseph. The second time around, you had some experience. You kind of, you knew some things right. You put that to work for you, but that first time around, when you didn't recognize, even though you yourself had struggled, found your way through. It's difficult, isn't it, as a parent, to find that help in public school and then that transition from public school to college. Talk a little bit about that transition from hardness in public school on to college? Yes.

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

So again, it was so crazy, because to have a child without the accommodations, without the testing, and of course, we had to fight for the testing. We had to get a parent advocate, we had to get a lawyer to work with us, and we had to go to the school and again, say, you know, we think you missed, you know, missed his diagnosis. And I think what's so incredible with students with dyslexia is they are so often so gifted, so they can compensate. They can get by until the work gets so hard that they just fail. They just can't continue anymore. And unfortunately, too, Joseph being the firstborn. You know, the common themes we would hear, Oh, he's so smart, but he's not trying hard enough. So we would, you know, just why aren't you trying harder? You know, just try your hardest. Like, you know, it's okay if you don't get good grades, but as long as you try, teachers are telling us you're not trying, you should be doing better, and the poor kid just could not do any better. And I remember, when he was finally diagnosed in his grades had improved to the point where, I mean, he was Dean's List, he was honors. Still could not read past the sixth grade level. We had missed that boat. You know, unfortunately, when he started doing Orton Gillingham, he was already a freshman, sophomore, so we at least got him up to the point where he was able to graduate and read. But luckily, he got books on tape. So going from high school into college. I think it was so important for us to go to the college. He was at Montana State. They had a great they do have a great disability office. And really think about his strengths, his weaknesses, and what could we do to set him up for success? So we he had his accommodations. He had this little I used to call it get out of jail card. It was a small little card, a yellow card, that when he wanted to use his accommodations, all he had to do was drop it on his teacher's desk, professors desk, and then she would, or they or he would allow him to get the accommodations for that class. We also made it a point to not load him up on credits. You know, he didn't need to take the full 15 to 18 credits that first semester. We said, take 12. And also think about the classes. Don't take the classes that you know you're going to struggle in. Don't take a class where there's three books that need to be read for the class. Take a class. Take an elective that's more auditory learning, music, film, you know, something again, that plays to your strengths. So I think there's so much that we could be doing for our students to really again, set them up for success. And I think what we see with our with our students coming through the scholarship, is we all worry when an applicant says, I don't want to use my accommodations. I want to show that I don't need them. And I equate it to if you're blind, are you going to read without Braille? If you cannot hear are you going to not use your hearing aids? It's just, it's what you need to learn. So I think it's so important to really get, yeah, get use the resources that are available to you. It's not, it's it's not embarrassing,

Donell Pons:

yeah, and normalizing that, right? Normalizing being able to use that absolutely. K, Barb, you've touched on it. And I want to explore this a little further, because through your scholarship foundation, that first year you had the two students, you're able to give 2001 nine years in, and the amount of money and students that you're impacting has just grown, but you've learned a lot of really good lessons along the way, about exactly right. It's more than just money when you have students who have dyslexia who want to do college. So tell us a little bit about some of those lessons you've

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

learned. So you know, we thought we were doing so well just by giving the money. So these kids would reach out, and they would think, as per. Few sleep and the letters from the parents and the letters from the kids about how someone believes in me. And then we realized that the next year, they weren't reapplying. And I would reach out to them and Donnell, you know, some of them, and we would say, why did you not reapply? And they would say, Well, I failed you. It's so embarrassing. You believed in me and I failed. I switched schools, dropped classes, took a semester off, not going back to college, and it was heartbreaking. So then we started to say, Well, how do we help them stay in college? And what we are now seeing on the flip side is we are seeing our kids being really successful through college. We're supporting them, but now, as they go through that next transition from college into careers post graduate, they're failing again. So we're like, okay, what is it about? It's transition. It's times of transition. It's changes in way they get accommodations. It's changes the way they network, they advocate different social situations. So we've now realized that a critical piece to success is helping them in that first transition. And this year, we're actually going to have mentors available to all our incoming freshmen. So every incoming freshman in our program will have a mentor if they want them for that year, a freshman year. And we're also going to put together zooms and webinars to and podcasts like this to basically help them throughout their four years of college. And then also getting into that next step, finding someone that they could speak to as they move out of that university or that college setting, because it's still very nurturing. You know, even though they're on their own, it's not real world, so it's preparing them for that next step. But that's what we really learned. It's, it's so much more than the finances, it's the belief. It's somebody believes in me as kids would tell us, they would say, Perfect Strangers are giving me money, and they believe that I can go to college and be successful. Wow, yeah,

Donell Pons:

and Barb, you're so right. I've had an opportunity to meet many of your students. You can't be involved with this scholarship foundation and not be moved, even if this is part of your own story, even if dyslexia isn't new to you, you're going to be moved. You'd be Stone Cold not to be moved by these students. But there's something interesting. There's there's a thread that you've kind of picked up that I want us to make sure that we're addressing your students oftentimes refer to you guys as a family, and that's really interesting. And when they say they refer to you as a family, it's because they feel understood. That piece that you brought up, because here are people who understand. I don't have to explain myself. You don't realize how often people who have dyslexia have to explain themselves if they get the opportunity. And that's interesting. Just feeling accepted. I don't need to explain. You get it, you understand. And then the other pieces is that they have folks who have similar circumstances and situations, so they can share. How do you handle that? What do you do? Because they felt pretty isolated growing up in handling

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

right? Yes, and that's something that we heard again and again, and even with Joseph, I think, you know, we didn't know, you know, we didn't know who to turn to. We didn't know if other students were struggling the same way he was. And that's what the kids tell us when they read his story as well, is I always thought I was alone. I always thought I was, you know, one unique person that there weren't other people like me, and wow, there's other people like me and even I think what makes our peer mentoring program so unique that Jake Sussman runs and overseas for us is that it's a freshman or first year student with dyslexia from our program being mentored by A junior or senior also from our program, who has dyslexia, and we match them up with common interests, common hobbies, same university and also, obviously majors, but it's they understand each other because they've had the same challenges. Yeah.

Donell Pons:

Gosh, what a fantastic I hope folks are listening and going, Gosh, that's a great idea. Scribble this down. Let's see what we can do, because you're so right, and that's been really a game changer, hasn't it? Barb, for a lot of students,

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

it has been, yes. I mean, we've gone, we would have a third of our kids not reapply, and the majority of those kids were not continuing in college, and we are now at like 98% of these kids that are in our mentoring program are continuing through Absolutely

Donell Pons:

yeah and something we ought to be thinking about applying even earlier in their educational experience, right?

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

Yes. Yes, which is something I guess, like eye to eye does as well, right? I mean, it's more on the and it's no different than Big Brothers, Big Sisters, right? You know, these types of programs have been proven even in careers, right? You get a career coach. What is that mentor? So it's Yeah, and it's somebody that you can identify with and, you know? And of course, it doesn't always work out, because you're kind of matchmaking, but, but when it does, it's really successful.

Donell Pons:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I take those odds any day. So Barb, we were talking a little bit about, and you've had such great information for folks, but what are some of the key things you've learned through this foundation and helping students who really do want to go on to college. What are some key things that you've learned that parents should be thinking about earlier in order to help their students? So I know there's going to be listeners who are saying, well, what can I do to help prepare my student? Because it sounds like it's a pretty big leap to get my student ready to make that that transition into college, or say it's into a course to be able to train for something else, because you also look at that certifications for things, what can I do? And

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

I think you're absolutely right, that's a really good point. So we've got a lot of kids that actually say I want to start at a community college and then go on to a four year college, and once a student is accepted. It's a really rigorous review process, as you now know, very difficult. But once they are awarded a scholarship, we want to keep them. We want to see them be successful, whatever that looks like, if it's a two year school, trade school, six years for an engineering degree. We had a boy graduate last year with dual degrees in engineering from the University of Utah. We've had HVAC trade. We've had mechanics graduate, whatever that success looks like. We want to see them complete what so when they apply, we want to help them to complete that process. And what we've tried to do is really stay in touch with them, but I think also try to educate, but also provide resources for parents, as you know, you've been on those calls with us. You know, it can be really daunting, and it's really get in front of those schools early. You know, think about the schools you're going to think about their disability offices, make appointments, and again, try to set the students up for success. Don't have them make sure they get their accommodations. And the key thing we've actually realized, too is think about the testing that they had in high school, because that testing can expire, and if it expires in college, suddenly they're left hanging without their accommodations. And we had one such student who that happened to, so who hopefully you'll have an opportunity to speak to. Because, again, it was eye opening. You know, it's, it's, you need to think almost a few years ahead, the things that, again, you're going to need to be successful, whatever that looks like. Yeah, absolutely. And

Donell Pons:

one of the things too, Barb is there, let's talk about a little bit about this too, because it's come up quite a bit with your students and with parents. I think just about every conversation I've been involved with this at some point comes up, and that is that when students are in a public school setting, it could be private. They're doing the elementary, middle to high school. It happens all across the board. In fact, I don't care what the setting as you'll see, the same scenario, there are these really great students like you say equally, they have charming personalities, many of them, or really great things they're good at. And so teachers oftentimes see that student and think, oh, but they're such a great student. I really like to see them do well. And they start making accommodations for the student that aren't formalized in any way. And so that student gets used to sort of, Oh, I know that teacher will be really helpful, so I'll just kind of lean in here and get a little help with this. But none of this is formally documented on a 504 it's not recognized. The student is probably not getting picked up on an individualized education program, and so it's not on an IEP of any kind. And so in other words, it doesn't exist, right? That that helped that student, and maybe all of that sort of somebody helping here, being able to go in a little few hours after and do and this sort of thing cobbled together was enough for that student to be able to do well enough to say, Gosh, I'd really like to do college. And they're bright enough, why not? Let's do college. And then it's a real rude awakening when they arrive at say, it's a community college university, and they say, Okay, where are your documented accommodations? And the student looks a little baffled. Well, my teacher helped me. I have no documentation. That's not a good feeling for a student or for their parents, right?

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

Yeah, and you're absolutely right, and I think it's so key to get. That diagnosis and to get the documentation, and unfortunately, you do need the neuropsych testing, and that's another thing that we've been wanting to help students with. We don't our scholarship can be used towards anything. Can be used towards computers. It can even be used for high school students if they want to do, you know, like an A CT prep course, or if they need to get neuro psych testing and their testing has expired, our scholarship funds can actually go towards that. So again, it's, it's really anything that helps them be successful. And unfortunately, you do need, you need that documentation. It goes a long way, because it creates now that that trail of, you know, legal documentation of what you are required and should have. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

absolutely. Barb, I want to reiterate that, because you said something so important that I know, if I were a parent and I heard that, I'd say, Wait, what did she just say? So you said, and you talked about a couple of things, that the scholarship, there's enough leeway there that say I can't afford the testing, because maybe, you know, it's tough, it's tight, it's expensive, and maybe I'm not insured to a point, and they're not going to pay for much of this, that I can use some of that scholarship money, that can be huge to somebody. The other piece you mentioned high school, talk to us a little bit about that. So I'm a high school student, but what year in high school, may you apply for the scholarship as well?

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

So actually, a junior and a senior year, you know, we haven't really formally put that requirement in but we've had juniors and seniors apply. It's a little bit harder, because so often at that point they're not quite sure what their career path is, and they go, Wow, how can I use the money? But yeah, they can even use it for, you know, for high school tuition as well. So often they think it's for college tuition, but it doesn't have to be. It could be used. We've had students use it for tutoring, for testing, for computer for audio books, a yearly subscription. So yeah, there's a lot of lead way. Gosh, that's fantastic.

Donell Pons:

So again, if I were a parent, I'd be going, Wait a minute, what did I just hear? This will all be in the show notes too, to be able to go to go to the link for the scholarship, because you're receiving a lot of valuable, very helpful information that will be available there. The other thing so, Barb, you know, you and I, like I said, we've been on this journey for a long time. I'm not going to say how many years, but it's been a while. And I want to kind of give folks a taste for this too. And if I had video of it, I'd love to be able to be able to show it, because it's not until you go and you have an opportunity to be there, that it's that you really realize how important this is. But every year, when you culminate the success of the scholarship, you do a party. It's really a party, a celebration of your students. And you've hosted this for many years now, I I put it on my calendar to make sure I make it, because you wouldn't miss it. Barb, tell us a little bit

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

about that, that party. So it started out as we we didn't want to necessarily have a fundraiser, but we wanted to thank people for donors, you know, for being donors and for donating. We also wanted to help educate the community and the donors, and also give an opportunity to thank the students and recognize them, right? And it has. It's taken on a life of its own, and it's really cool, because all of Joseph's friends now are like, yeah, they are all you know, dispersed out of college, jobs, married, and, you know, they all come back to Park City and stay at our house and help celebrate, you know, his life. And, yeah, it is. It's a celebration. And I think what's really cool too, is I've had speakers, as you know, we've had Jonathan Mooney and others speak. But I think what people tell me is the most powerful speakers are the kids. Is when the kids stand up on stage and say why this scholarship is important to them, that's what really moves everyone. Oh, I

Donell Pons:

would totally agree. And Barb What's really amazing about that experience too is this is an opportunity for a student who might not ever get onto a stage. That's true. To get onto a stage, right? Yeah, and to speak to a crowd, and it's a loving crowd, that's the thing. You're not going to have a better, warmer reception from a crowd. So it's a great opportunity if you're nervous, and that's not something you would feel comfortable doing. But I've seen students that you have that are very hesitant, like, geez, I don't know. I don't know. And get up there and take that mic, and it is such a powerful moment. You see them kind of stand up a little taller, right? And they are able to tell their story just a little bit. They share a little snippet, and that warm reception that they receive, because everybody there really wants them to succeed. And boy, is that a powerful moment. I it's unforgettable, really, yeah.

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

And in fact, the. Share. I was talking to a friend of mine who's been there, who's a eighth grade reading teacher, right? So she sees a lot of kids with reading challenges, and is a huge advocate for education around dyslexia. And she said, Barb. She goes, I don't even know if you need to have a formal speaker. She said, I think if you can just get some of the kids to come, especially now, the ones that are mentors and or mentees and just Yeah, talk to them about their experience with the program overall. She said, It's very powerful. It is.

Donell Pons:

It's absolutely fantastic. Barb, I cannot believe that we have pretty much hit our mark as our time together that I'm taking today. Like I said, there's so much information, and we could, we could talk for hours, and we do, oftentimes, we do end up talking for hours. This has been so fantastic to just give folks a little idea of the great work that you're doing with this scholarship foundation, a little bit of its history, and to hear you because you're really inspiring Barb, you're a force. It makes

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

me, you know what, Donell, I can't do it without friends and people and volunteers like you. I mean, you've been, you've been my rock through so much of this. So thank you. You

Donell Pons:

know Barb, and I do have to say you do attract some of the best volunteers I've ever worked with. Yeah, so it's true, it's fantastic. So again, we'll provide all that information, because we provided a lot of information in the show notes with links for folks, and besides everything else, Barb, you do provide a lot of just good general information, even if 50 year doesn't get a scholarship, and

Barbara Wirostko (Morelli):

that's actually so that's another key thing, is we try. I mean, obviously we can't support everyone, but we try to encourage students to not be discouraged if they don't get an, you know, get an award to reapply. We do try to help as many kids as we can, but, yeah, I mean, there's limits, there's limits to resources, limits to funding, but we do try to, each year, include more students, and once they are in this process and amongst this family that we've created, we are committed to helping them succeed. So yeah, we keep trying to build that resource. So thank you. Thank you for being part of it. Donell, Oh, absolutely. I

Donell Pons:

love it, and I'm so thrilled to be a part of it. What a great conversation opportunity for us to talk today and to provide terrific resources for parents and students. Thank you. Barb,

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Narrator:

Up next, Donell talks to Amy Mabile, a recipient of the Morelli Foundation Scholarship.

Donell Pons:

So Amy, this is so great that you're able to have a conversation with me. I've had a lot of conversations with individuals who work around students in college who have a learning difference, typically dyslexia, and those have been great conversations. But it's also nice to hear from students, the actual individual who's going through college with the learning difference, and Amy, can you just give us so first of all, just state your name, full name, and then where you're going to school. And then let's get into your learning experience from when you were young and when you realized it was different.

Amy Mabile:

Gotcha. So my name is Amy Mabile. I go to the University of Southern Mississippi, and to kind of just get into my past about growing up with a learning difference is I got diagnosed going into the first grade. I'm the youngest of six siblings for including me, which have dyslexia, so my path was kind of set up for more. So knowing what I was, what my family was, we're getting ourselves into but it wasn't until I kind of got into college and high school that I much truly had to pave my own way, because my siblings weren't there with me anymore to pave the way. So that's kind of the original background

Donell Pons:

Amy, that's so interesting because, like you say, it is fairly unusual for someone to have a diagnosis. First of all, to get a diagnosis if they have dyslexia. Secondly, to get it as early as you did, and to have other siblings that kind of forged a path. Usually, I talk to people who the other siblings didn't have a clue either. So did this come from your parents? Did one or both of them have challenges with reading, and so they knew to look out for it? How did that happen? Okay,

Amy Mabile:

so it. Started with my oldest brother. So back in when my parents were growing up, at least, dyslexia was not talked about much at all. So the ABA was passed in 1990 was literally when my mother graduated high school, so none of that was ever talked about then. So with starting with my brother, it was kind of ADHD at first, and then got tested for that, and then kind of went down the same reaction of like, okay, well, we still don't have everything quite figured out. So we kept mom, kept digging and digging and digging, and finally got the diagnosis of dyslexia in our school district, they were not very receptive to this. Very few school districts even give you an IEP for dyslexia. It is, I believe, something like reading disorder with a specialty in it. They don't say dyslexia. It's like a bad word to most school districts. So with that being said, when the second sister came along, kind of the same thing, yeah, like, knew what to look for. Well, at that point, when I came along, because I had another brother from me, it was like, Okay, what are the odds that she's not because at this point we had all shown signs of struggling in school. However, like me and my sister, we probably could have gotten by without getting tested, but we would have never thrived. That's what people can understand, that there's a difference in getting by and thriving in school.

Donell Pons:

Amy, I'm so glad you brought that up, because that's very true that we oftentimes see folks with dyslexia working really, really hard to stay up with peers and doing extraordinary things to make things happen for themselves. And so we say, Oh, looks like they're doing okay to me, but it's the effort that they're having to expand in order to just get to that that starting line like everybody else. So I'm glad you brought that up. And then Amy, tell me a little bit about what intervention looked like for you when you were young. So getting a diagnosis, did that immediately turn into extra help and support, or was that another struggle?

Amy Mabile:

So I would say that that school districts in general have come a very long way then when I was in first grade quite a few years ago. So intervention now, it did not look like it did then. Intervention back then just meant okay, you could have your test read, okay, that's great, but we're not really fixing the problem. Back then, all they did was basically help you get by more so help you get the grades. But long term, you didn't. There was no solution, because most schools don't bring in dyslexia therapists, especially if your school doesn't have the funding. My school did not have the funding to bring in a dyslexia therapist. Much alone, dyslexia therapists were not really a big thing back in 2011 2010 so yeah, it was much so of a Okay. Well, great. I get my test read, and that was my main accommodation when I first got tested. Oh,

Donell Pons:

Amy, I'm so glad you brought this up, too. Boy, your story is going to resonate for a lot of folks, because what happens is, oftentimes you get the diagnosis, and then it's then, what now? What? How does this help me? And oftentimes it doesn't lead to a solution to helping the student catch up or get the skills that they need or get the appropriate instruction. It just simply means, oh, like you say, let's read a test out loud. Let's give extended time for things. And so it doesn't really match, and we're really disappointed with that diagnosis saying, Why didn't I get more? Why didn't I understand more? So I really appreciate you bringing that up, too. It's very important. And so, Amy, it sounds like you had at least some folks in your household that were helping to pave a way for you, helped you, help show you the way. But was college still difficult when you made that transition? Tell me about that.

Amy Mabile:

Absolutely, college was quite difficult. However, I how me and you met is the Joseph James Morelli Legacy Foundation. We do have a mentorship program, which does always help, but you have to realize you're going to have difficulties. I feel like no matter what kind of school you come from, even I would say, if you are a rock star advocate, you are being thrown into a whole new ocean of new dish. And I would be very shocked if you had zero trouble at all. I hate to say that, but my first semester, I had quite the difficulty with my accommodation. People were taking off for spelling when they shouldn't. I wasn't. It was quite about to get my full line time on test. Because how accommodations work when you go to college, when you go to college, you get accommodations through the ABA before you only got them through, I believe the idea act or 504. Plans, yes. Okay, so that's how you got them before. So it's the laws are a little different and how documentation is a little different. So therefore, like, one of the big things we were talking about is, you know, actually having a diagnosis for dyslexia is very big when you go to college, because a lot of colleges won't just take your IEP from high school. That's a really big deal. And it's a law trying to be Act passed. Cause the rise act to where they would have to take your IEP or 504 plan from high school, but that's still in the works for a lot of states. So that being said, I actually look at my accommodations through the ACT so in the ADA, a very not known, I just call it a hack, is that it says that you can get accommodations via a national standardized test that had already been approved for my ACT accommodations, which I could then use in college.

Donell Pons:

Yeah, so Amy, it's obvious you become well versed in being able to take care of yourself and advocate for yourself, but it didn't come easy, as you've already stated, and that's a good point to make. Don't get discouraged, because it can be very discouraging. You made another really good point, and that is the advocacy and also the mentorship. It's the peers that can be very helpful to you as well. And you mentioned the Joseph James Morelli scholarship, and we have a conversation with Barbara, who heads up that scholarship, amongst many other great people, and it's a scholarship for students who are going to college, who have dyslexia, learning difference, and they all, like everybody else, deserve to have some recognition and some financial support. But in addition to that, some mentorship other folks, and, more importantly, folks who have dyslexia, you can help them kind of walk that pathway. You also mentioned some other really important things, Amy, and that is, some things weren't being given to you in the beginning or weren't being recognized. How did you go about having those first hard conversations with a professor? Those can be intimidating.

Amy Mabile:

Okay, so that's a very, very, very funny story. Okay, so this professor in particular, he ended up retiring. I started out at a community college to start with. I was not always at the college I'm at, so we ended up being best friends. I wanted to start with that we ended up being like, we had a great professor, student learning relationship, but it did not start that way. So I went into his office and I kindly asked him, I was like, why are you taking off for spelling? That was the biggest problem with him, because it was, you know, it was a chemistry class, so I just couldn't understand why I was being taken off spelling when that was one of my accommodations. And he's like, Well, it says should be lenient on spelling. Well, I had already seen that wording about accommodations during the summer, and I had already raised my concern about this wording in the summer. And they're like, it's fine, yes, yes. So flash forwarding to that. I'm like, Okay, gotcha, but it's my accommodation that this shouldn't happen. He's like, Well, it's basically a spelling test. I'm like, I can tell you everything verbally, what these things are. Every single one of them, I would have made it 100 on the test. Literally, it was a life safety test. So it wasn't. It was our very first one kind of setting you up for the semester. And had already had other classes with lab safety, so I had a background in it, but that was the first conversation with him. So I ended up having to go back again, because I'm like, Okay, I still don't have my point. What's the deal? He's like, Okay, I talked to Disability Services, and they said, You know, I I have the right to do to take the points off, because it is, I'm like, okay, cool. And I'm like, freshman, freshman. Like, as, like, new to college as I can get. I literally, I'm gonna go. I left his office, like, nearly falling, like it was, like, handing me a tissue. It was bad, because at this point, like, this was probably one my it was not my lowest moment in college, but it was definitely near about there, because it's just like, Okay, great. I'm in college. I want to be an optometrist. I literally have eight plus years more ahead of me, and I can't even get the points for spelling. Where am I going to go from here? I got lucky, and my professor, out of what was was crying, no crying, your friend, your professor, I'm not saying do that. This was an accident. I don't like crying for the people, but he ended up calling me, and he was like, I had the points back and I talked to Disability Services. This won't happen again. Yeah, yeah. So I guess, yes, he did come through very much. So because I was, I had literally went back to my dorm and I started writing an email when he was, I guess, thinking I was writing an email. So I'm just, like, running around, right? And I just started from the beginning of my story, like, and I had a lot of layers to me. I'm also hearing a parent. I have ADHD, so I have other things besides my dyslexia. So I mean, I just start from the beginning and tell them everything. And this is not a requirement that anybody has to do. It's not anything that anybody can make you do, especially if I'm just like, I could not figure out how to make him understand, and that was the best way. But he called before that, but I still send them the email, and I CC that to one of the vice presidents,

Donell Pons:

Amy, I am so glad you. You shared that story with us, because, again, I think a lot of folks are gonna, there's a lot of pieces they're gonna take away from that, and I appreciate how you were able to bring the story back around for you and for the professor, too. Yeah. And also, if there are folks listening, who are professors in college, this is a good cautionary tale. Learn from this story, because in the end, Amy, we want to give people access. We want to see people succeed, and I know that teachers do too. Professors do. You wouldn't be in that field if you didn't want to. And so it's good to see this perspective take a step back and watch a situation occurring, because it's sometimes easier to see. Oh, where you might Oh, that's my assumption. I could have done this. So it's good to watch and look at and learn from those kinds of stories you said some really interesting things, and that is, be careful about the language that's being used to describe. And remember things are going through many hands, right? So there's somebody's interpretation of this that gets put onto this document, and keeping a close eye on that. That was really important that you brought up. I hadn't even thought about that, and then how that might be interpreted later on down the road to somebody else who doesn't have a background in understanding disabilities, which a lot of college professors don't, because it's not required. So that was really good information. And then I love the way that you chose to handle that. You're right. You didn't choose to cry in front of the professor. You're not advocating for doing that. But you also showed your professor the human side. And the professor, it looks like really felt that was touched by it, and went to back to re evaluate, to say, hey, wait a minute. This is a student who's passionate, really cares, wants to be successful. I'm so glad he came back around, reevaluated the situation. Boy. Amy, there were a lot of layers to that. And I applaud you too, for like you say, your career has a lot of schooling in front of it. And so you are in this for the marathon. You're not in this for a 5k you know, you're in this for the long haul. And you've got that perspective, which is so important. So Amy, I'm going to ask you, because I know you're a fantastic advocate, but you're also a fantastic mentor in the mentor program with the scholarship, tell me a little bit about what it means to be a mentor to other students, and how much it meant to you to have a mentor.

Amy Mabile:

So what it meant to me to have a mentor, that's where I want to start, is it was a game changers. So I ended up having, at one point two people, and this was a special circumstance, but one of them understood my ADHD mind, and then the other one understood my dyslexic stem like want the good grades for the long run side. This was very crucial to me, because, as I said, I have a lot of layers to me, a lot, and I mean, like everyone does, but this was very crucial for me, for someone to understand. So with you said, with me being a mentor, I love mentoring. I love giving back to people, because you have to understand. I knew what it was like to leave that dude's office crying. So one of my biggest thing with my mentee is, like, they'll tell me something. I'm like, we can go on the phone together. I have no shame. I'm in another state. I have no shame at all. So I haven't had to do with this for anyone yet, but I always do offer because we have to realize in these situations, the part the mentor, I like to call them, I'm an awkward absorbance button. So what this means is, basically, you are absorbing any of the awkwardness in the conversation as a mentor, that is part of your job. So say, if my mentor would have gone with me in that situation, would like put them on speaker and be like, hey, it would have explained to you, ARMA, how can we help fix this situation? So like, if I did this, it would just be a person removed from it, and it would have been a little bit more of a calmer atmosphere. It's literally just somebody, and I don't know a teacher, honestly, that if somebody did this, they would judge you for it. I just really don't, because this is somebody that cares about you. They're trying to help you on the front line, and they're trying to help you navigate all these things, as long as you explain and you just don't put push on speaker and somebody just starts talking. So that's very much so with our mentoring program, one thing that we kind of harp on is being proactive and being due in the moment. So yeah,

Donell Pons:

oh, am you again? You've said some really important things. I really hope people are listening and taking notes, or at least replay this and come back if you want to. But that's really important to feel like you're not alone, and like you said, you haven't had to step in yet to be that voice for somebody, but just knowing that they have you, there is a lot for somebody that is so important to know that if I need it, I know I have this person who said they'll go to bat for me. And then also, you've mentioned just having somebody who knows what it feels like to be in those shoes, has some semblance of understanding about I know what it's like to be there. That's huge for somebody too. That kind of understanding and empathy. And Amy, you've mentioned a couple of times before about having layers, and I think this is really important. None of us are just one thing. All of us are unique. I mean, that's what makes us pretty great, but it also can make it challenging, because you feel like, because I'm unique, maybe somebody won't understand, but you've made that very clear, that even though you feel like, yeah, I have layers. I'm pretty unique. There are aspects of you and. YOUR Story and what you do that other people can relate to, that I think, is so important. And tell me a little bit about how you do that. When you're doing you're working as a mentor. How do you how do you relate to people, or help them feel like they're being related to how does that work?

Amy Mabile:

So with our mentees, you always, normally have at least one common denominator, whether that's amazing major or an outlet, you at least have one, most of the time, more than one, but so at one point, I had a radiology major. I'm obviously not radiology, but we had other things in common. But one of the biggest things about people with layers is listening. When I first became a mentor, I was freaked out. I was so worried about doing it wrong, because I'm such an empathetic person. I was so worried about doing it wrong or saying the wrong thing, or just not being able to be there for that person. But I was very great friends with the faculty and the counseling department at my community college, and one of them told me they said, Amy, all you have to do is listen at the time, like I'm like, I took in the information, but like, I really took in the information as I went from there. Because all you have to do is listen. You don't have to answer yes, yes, yes, yes, or always have to have the answer. Just listen to them. Listen to what they're passionate about, let them talk so much in mentoring is just letting people talk, if they will, and if they won't push them ask questions, you have to be able to listen to the few things that they say, to be able to hear the things that they don't, to know what to ask. That's, I would say that that's the biggest part of it.

Donell Pons:

Wow. Okay, you've given us some real pearls of wisdom. I love that you mentioned having something in common, and so even if that's you know, similar feel doesn't have to be exact same field, but having those commonalities, so you've got some common ground. I love that. And then that listening, you're right. Boy are you right. And just being willing, like you said, to wait in that space for as long as it might take them, maybe throw out a few questions, like you said, to get them to talk. Boy, those are some really good things to take forward. And so Amy, we've had such a great conversation. I could talk to you all day, but you are a busy woman. I respect that. But is there anything that you'd like to leave with folks that maybe we haven't covered, that you would find important, particularly around college, that maybe we haven't been able to share.

Amy Mabile:

I would say, going in to your freshman year, Junior, sophomore, senior, whatever year it is, if you haven't found a group of people or a mentor, try to find one that they don't have to have dyslexia. It would be great if they did, because they understand you, but again, as long as they're willing to listen to you. My back, that chemistry teacher did become a mentor. We ended up he understood that I was very much in the moment with studying. I would go into his office and ask him to explain things. He would explain it. I'll work on the next problem in his office. That was a very nice thing that he was willing to do for me. I mean, it meant a lot to me when test time came, it drastically improved me. So I would just say, try to find those people for yourself, because those are going to be the ones that will write your recommendation letters, that are willing to bat for you. Those are your people that are going to stand on the front line with you, no matter if that is a friend, a teacher, someone in your class, no matter if that's your professor or a vice president of a college, you never know that. That's one of my best advice, I would say, and never give up

Donell Pons:

those. Some fantastic advice. And you know what? I love you bringing up the professor again, because am you really turned that around, and it took both of you. So I'm acknowledging that he also did a great job of humbling and coming around as well, not just you, but both of you in that situation, because that could have turned out quite differently, but instead, what a positive experience it has been, I'm sure, for you and for him and for future students that he has as well at the college level, that's a great I love that story. It's fantastic. Amy, you have been a fantastic guest. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you taking a little bit of time out of your busy out of your busy schedule to speak with us and to share some of these tips and ideas for folks who are going through college with dyslexia. Thank you.

Amy Mabile:

Thank you guys for having me.

Narrator:

Lastly, Donell talks to Jake Sussman, a mentor for the Morelli scholarship program.

Donell Pons:

We've had a lot of great conversations about this space of living with dyslexia, and not just in the school. We talk a lot about public school, and that's been the focus of these series of podcasts. And this is an opportunity, really, to have a great conversation with someone who, and I'm just going to say it and start the whole conversation this way. This is Jake Sussman that I'm talking with today. And Jake, for those who haven't seen you, and I want folks to Google, because you have some great stuff online. Great stuff online too. I hope they do that, do a little search and see what you've been up to, but you put together, and it's been a while ago now, but it was a video, and I think that was my first exposure to Jake, and it was a video that you put together, and it was a video of poetry, and it's, it's a poem, and it's so moving. Is it moving? And Jake, it sat with me, I have to tell you, because I was at a little event that I was invited to, and I had kind of gotten a little preview of what I was going to see, so I had an idea of it. But when I was in that space with a lot of like minded people, and the lights go out, and we were able to watch this presentation, I tell you, you could have heard a pin drop. It was silent, and then it just really hung with me. And then days later, I found myself wanting to have my my son who has dyslexia. I kept urging him, you've got to watch this video. You've got to see it. It just it really, it really stuck with me. You were able to encapsulate so much of what it's like to have dyslexia, the challenges, the struggles, but yeah, also the the sheer power of will to get a lot of things done, that comes through. And so today's conversation, I'm hoping to touch on a lot of those things too. But as we take this journey with you, Jake and learn a little bit about you, where you're from, and the amazing things that you're doing, I hope there's something that that everybody can kind of grab on to, and there's a little something for them to take away with them, because I know that you've stuck with me for a long time, which I think is great. So Jake, I'm going to start there. I'm going to have you talk about so I came into knowing who you are at the point where the video, where you've made this video, but you had a lot of experiences up to the point of making that video. Let's kind of give our listeners a little idea. Jake, what was life like for you having dyslexia, and when did you find out you had dyslexia? Well,

Jake Sussman:

you know, it's one of those things where these stories are first of all, thank you so much for inviting me on number one. And you know, it's about these stories are better told felt than really explaining. That was the power of the Forgotten child poem, which captivated not just my own story, but the story of so many others. Okay, and I feel like, if that's okay, I would like to share it, because I think I can talk about my story. But the most important thing too is that everyone can see themselves in not just mine, but their own stories as well. Is that okay that we kick us off with with the Forgotten child poem? I would love it. Okay, great. All right, so for all of you, this is a poem that I wrote when I was in college, and it was in a time of my life where I was confident and ready to express myself, because it was a time that I wasn't actually supposed to be in college, because I was told I would never go to College growing up. So the feelings that you feel is the feelings of someone who is necesitri who they are. I kindly ask you to please shut your eyes so you can fully understand the story that has left me so traumatized. Imagine yourself as the child that always smiled. You were wild and beguiled until the day you were profiled. This is the story of the Forgotten child. Now what I am about to tell you will truly make your stomach turn. They said, I have major concern, Mr. And Mrs. But your child simply can't learn. The child was labeled disabled. He was told face to face that he should stop his chase to a higher educational place because he couldn't read any book in the bookcase. This is an absolute disgrace. Those words should never come out of anyone with a knowledge base. From that point on, he was taken out of the classroom all day long, from home room to three hours past eating the lunchroom, he became paranoid, full anxiety and fear because he was told he was impaired. It felt like nobody cared. He was misunderstood as a result of educators thinking she was no good. He just needed someone to think that he could you see, negative labels are destructive, counterproductive and obstructive. Now I ask you to please open your eyes to some surprise, that forgotten child is standing before all of you guys. He defied the lies of this public educational enterprise. You see what they didn't know with that this forgotten child had an epic thirst for knowledge. He refused to acknowledge you will never go to college. He took those words and turned them from frustration into motivation. He was lacking that academic foundation, so his parents pulled him out of this cultivation they called public education. Let me bring something to rouse. Just imagine your academic journey. That the construction of a house without the proper support, that house will fall short. He was finally put in a place where his mind was no longer a disgrace. It was a place that built his academic base as strong as an iron case. They saw Him for everything he got this. A new school of thought. It is something that the public educational system simply did not and it was the first time that the Forgotten child actually smiled since the day he was profiled. Now let me mention one of the most notable individuals in all of mankind with a mind that was also defined like mine. Let's take someone like Albert Einstein, a man of credibility that had a learning disability. He was lacking much value, really, despite educators much liquidity. But that didn't stop Al's life journey to discovering the theory of relativity. So take a minute while I spit some poetry. What's the difference between you and every person that I can't see? Truth is there's nothing, because each and every one of us have our own unique ability. Einstein said it perfectly that everybody is a genius, but if we judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking that it is stupid, don't you see? Wise man once told me the power comes from the young people knowing that they can change the world. Don't ever give up your shot. Your mind is all you've got. It's time we change this public educational melting pot, turning our minds into a robot. You get my gist, in this world craving to coexist, it's time that we work with the kids that are missed, with those who fit the mainstream schools perfectly, and then those who learn differently. Together, I insist.

Donell Pons:

Oh, Jake, I just want to take a minute. Gosh, it's so powerful. Every time. I even looked at it last night again and grabbed some lines out of it. It's so powerful. And I hope folks will also not just re listen to this, but also go and see the video that goes with this poem that you've put together. But Jake, you take us through the whole journey.

Jake Sussman:

Yes, all absolutely. And I'll tell you that while I come to the table with solutions, you see, this poem is not just to point a finger at public schools, and we're not saying that every teacher is bad. Every school is bad. What you're hearing and what you're feeling, no matter if you were triggered by the words or not, it's the feeling of feeling misunderstood by someone in that classroom who's not being reached. And that was me, and that is so many kids around the world. But to be honest, everyone has a forgotten child in them. Everyone, yeah,

Donell Pons:

yeah. I think that's so interesting. You tapping into this, this, this thing that we can all relate to, right? That's helpful, right? To tap into that. And then Jake, that's so interesting that somebody told you you weren't college material, because you are far from not college material. Tell me about that moment, because it's pivotal for you right when, when somebody makes a statement about you, put you in a certain position. Talk about

Jake Sussman:

I'll tell you that, um, it happened in sixth grade. Wow. I want to paint the scene for a minute. Okay, imagine your little you sixth grade self, you were four grade levels behind in reading. You were forced to read out loud in class. I remember the anxiety, the sweat that would build up when it was going around the class. They would they would do the activity where they read each line and then go to the next person. I would be sweating because I couldn't do it. And then when it came time to my turn, I would start reading, and then I would stop and start stuttering, and I would hear kids laughing, and it was a nightmare, right? So how do you expect someone to be open to learning anything when their relationship with learning is pain? You can right? My parents, I had the opportunity of getting pulled out of school. I was put in a school that specialized in learning differences. Okay, I actually was in a school for middle school, for seventh and eighth grade, and then for high school, I ended up going to a boarding school for students with high functioning learning disabilities. And I'm saying this for a reason, and to make this relatable also to those families who may not be able to have the means to go to these schools, because I want to be cognizant of these families as well. You know, I I didn't understand grades, the meaning of an A until junior year of high school. Okay? I became obsessed with learning how to learn and how I learned, because I was always remember that I'm smart, like, there's things that I'm good at that I'm not good at, the school thing. But for me, we're talking about model trains, right? I love model trains. Trains, for me is like it is my it's my Zen, right? And when, during the lowest points in my life, I had this model train set in my basement, and this was in middle school, and it was the only place in the world where I felt safe, I could build whatever I want. Road, I was in full control. I It really was a museum quality model railroad. I mean, like, it's huge, and it was an exact expression of my imagination. So in that I had, I knew that I was smart and I was good at certain things, but in school, I wasn't really, but I had this yearning to want to understand. So that's really what led me to be open, to want to learn again, and to develop that confidence, which started social confidence first, which then gave me the space for academic confidence. It couldn't go the other way around, right? I had to feel good with myself and my peers first, so that I will be open to receiving the information from a teacher or asking for help. My pivotal moment? Well, the pivotal social moment happened in middle school, where the first time in my life I was speaking, we were going around a similar circle, and instead of reading, we were sharing what we did the previous summer, and I, at the time, developed a stutter because I was always corrected, and I would always just stop in the middle of what I was saying. And it was really scary again. Here comes the sweat, and I'm shivering and going around. I made it, by the way, a new school. Now no one knows me. Here's my time to shine, and I am freaking out. Then it comes time for me to share. I'm Jake. I went to Disney, and I'm starting to stutter again in this girl next to me filled in my sentence. She said, Disney World, and for the first time in my life, I realized that someone helped me. They weren't just laughing. They actually understood me, because they have what I have, right? They have a learning difference. Because this was a school that specialized in kids with learning differences, and that was the first time when I realized that there's other kids like me. That was step one for social confidence, but it took me till June, a year of high school, to really embrace my academic confidence. And that point in time, it was at a Model UN for those of you who don't know, it's like a mock United Nations of where kids from all over the world, high schoolers come to one place. In this place, it was Yale University, and here I was, six years into specialized school, not interacting with, quote, unquote, normal kids, going to Yale University, interacting with normal kids. So now the anxiety is coming back up, you know. And something remarkable happened is that in this committee that I was on my country that I represented, because that's how Model UN works. I had the key to the problem that everyone was solving. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is my time to shine. I actually my country is the model country that we're all trying to figure out. So here I am putting together a presentation at Yale University, I get this bug. It's like the Yale bug, right? And I made this presentation in front of 150 normal kids, and it worked. And from that point on, I realized that, wait a minute, everyone around me is actually no smarter than me. I can do this. And from there, that was really where I ran. That's

Donell Pons:

so interesting. Jake, thank you for sharing some of this history, because I know people will find it very helpful. There's some interesting key points that you were I was picking up on. It's as you were talking, and that is realizing that people around you, for maybe the first time, that were helpful, they wanted to help you. That that's an interesting key point is that there were some folks around you that it actually felt like they care and maybe they want to lift instead of bring me down. That was really interesting, I think. And another key point was an opportunity you had in order to shine, to show this is what Jake can do, outside of these other settings where maybe people are saying, Jake, you can't do this, Jake, you can't do that. And then you have an opportunity to say, hey, look, but this is what I can do, and you need those opportunities, right?

Jake Sussman:

Well, I'll tell you that I'm talking in big nuts, because there's a lot goes in between. You know, I'm saying, like, I mean, there's camp, there's like, being the least, like kid at camp in elementary school to then being an elected leader by the time I was in eighth grade, like I had this hunger to want to be accepted, right? To want people to like me, because having ADHD, I struggled reading social cues, so it was really hard for me growing up, so I just wanted to always improve, right, always. So again, a lot of things led to these, this confidence, because it didn't come from nowhere. Yeah, yeah, that's

Donell Pons:

so interesting. I'm glad you did say that, Jake, that it takes more than just an experience. And I also appreciate you mentioning ADHD, because we oftentimes, when we talk about dyslexia or the Dyslexic profile, we think of it as just one thing, but there's a whole spectrum of neuro atypical that comes. Come with having dyslexia, right? So ADHD is one of those that commonly occurs with dyslexia. We don't oftentimes talk about that. The challenge that it's not just one thing, it can be a lot of different things that you that you're working with.

Jake Sussman:

And I think, too, that's very interesting, because with what I do with super mentors, and again, we'll, obviously, we'll talk about this shortly, but you're right that oftentimes we look at just Dyslexia as this one thing, but in reality, I mean, there are so many minor cases it's like, okay, like the amount of kids that I speak to that say I can't read because of my dyslexia, right? And they literally believe that they can't read. The amount of kids that I speak to with ADHD that say I can't focus because of my ADHD, and therefore they literally have embraced this idea where they can't focus, right? So we almost assume these and not, and we forget that there's a lot of other things that come into play beyond just having the label, yeah, yeah. And that's something that we're going to talk about it's really big. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

okay, so Jake, let's take so, let's pick up the thread and get on that journey so we can bring folks along. You do obviously, you're able to have some experiences. You get enough education behind you to feel confident enough to attend college and then tell us about college, because a lot of folks have this sense, hey, if you make it to college then, oh, you're there. It's golden. They're on. You're good,

Jake Sussman:

not true. It's, it's actually far from the truth. You know, it's, it's a problem, like we think, and unfortunately, a lot of private specialized schools, they would pride themselves on 100% college acceptance when it's one thing to get in, but it's a whole other thing to stay in. Okay? And this is something that I talk a lot about, which is, hey, 40% of US college freshmen drop out of school. 30% of them are freshmen. And on top of all that, according to a recent study from the National Center for Learning Disabilities, young adults with learning disabilities that enroll in four year colleges at half the rate of the general population. Which brings it to that their completion rate for any type of college is 41% compared to 52% of all young adults. So what that means is, why are we dropping out? What are we not being taught in school? And that this is coming into my story. The college that I went to was Roger Williams University. Okay, this is the first time, and the only school that I applied to that did not have an academic support program, right? There's the, there's a service of where they what they legally have to give you under this, the ADA, right? And then there's actual, there's, like, the salt program at University of Arizona, right? At Arizona, yeah, right. And there's other programs that are much more. It's like you, it's it's like you have to apply to get into it's like a whole thing, okay? But I said to myself, I have to learn how to coexist with neurotypical people. If I want to be successful, I can't just be in my bubble of where it's safe. I have to go out there and interact and learn how to figure this thing out. So I go to Roger Williams University, and I came in on survival mode. I mean, within the first week, I had a meeting with the President University, because I'm like, Well, if anything hits the fan, the President University, if he likes me, he's got my back. So, so, but, but like, so that's what I did. So I ended up meeting with every professor before every class. I gave them the spiel of Jake and we had a plan. And unfortunately, my peers that I graduated this high school from were dropping out. And I was like, How come I'm not dropping out? And that is what led for the inspiration of this poem come junior year. But it was not an easy road in college. I mean, it was a big wake up call. Yeah, Jake,

Donell Pons:

you've talked about how long it took you to finish college. Can you share that? Because a lot of folks have this perception that you finish it in so much time you're done. Talk a little bit about that,

Jake Sussman:

yeah, of course. So to be honest, it took me about, actually, it took me four and a half semesters, although I was on a pace of finishing in five years. Okay, I'm sorry, not four and a half semesters. It was a total of four years. But I said to myself. And my parents gave me this advice to and I also, you know, had some mentors in college that said, Why rush? You know, wouldn't you rather do quality over quantity? Why are you trying to Jan in five classes, especially having ADHD of where you don't really they? July's time. Well, in college time, you have to interact with the syllabus. So it's like this whole thing where, let's just ease our way in. Don't have to rush it, it get involved in other things. You don't need to only be a full time student, like join a club, start a club, and that's what I ended up doing. I started two clubs at my school because I had this time available because I wasn't taking an extra class. So that was something that was really helpful for my balance in college. And then Jake,

Donell Pons:

we're getting to the part that folks are going to really appreciate, and that is having gone through this college experience, and you've shared some of the things that are going to formulate what you do later to help other students. How soon after you have your college experience do you start putting together this group that would become a real support network for students in college?

Jake Sussman:

So it didn't happen until I graduated for multiple reasons in college, my focus was to prepare. It's the two Ps. Either go to school, the party or prepare, right? What's your priority? Okay, so I wanted to go into prepare and going into school. I realized I got into the school of business, because I want to be a businessman. I love business. I love entrepreneurship, but I terrible at math, terrible at math. I mean, it's so bad, okay, so I can't be the business school because I have to do finance and econ and all these accounting and all those other classes. So what I realized, though, was my strength is in communication. So I changed my school, and I ended up going to the school of communication, which was a absolute game changer. And I always tell families in the students that we work with is that if you don't know what you want to do, go into communication, because at least you'll know how to communicate. It's something that you can take away for yourself in you you could be in any field. You got to know how to communicate. So you'll learn that there. So that's where I always start with communication, and that's what I ended up doing. It really was huge for me. And I worked my way through college. I ended up transferring colleges my junior year into University of Hartford to graduate for my final senior year, and about a year later is when I ended up the my poem ended up getting picked up and we published it on social media.

Donell Pons:

Okay, awesome. And then you start your own group.

Jake Sussman:

What does that yes, so superpower mentors started after the Forgotten child. Video was picked up by an Emmy Award winning filmmaker, Harvey Hubble, and after it was launched in October 2019 I was getting invited to speak all over the country on behalf of the Forgotten child. And I was speaking all over the place, and I was in Utah, actually, that's where I met Barbara Morelli, which is of the Morelli Foundation. And there was a lot of parents coming up to me, asking if I work with kids. And this is really interesting, because, well, I'm not an edge I don't have a background in education. That's not my thing, right? I'm not a teacher, I'm not a therapist. So where is the credibility? What do I have to bring to the table? What can I do? Well, I've been there. I can speak a language that most professionals may not be able to simply for the fact that I have lived it, breathed, it, walked, it. And now the one thing that we're not taught, which is communication skills. That's what we're doing. So through the vessel of mentorship, is where this the idea of mentoring for these kids with learning differences came into then when COVID hit, was when it exploded, because everyone was home, the wait list, getting to a therapist was so far back and a mentor has been this proven alternative to mental health, because we're not coming in here to fix a problem. Kids with dyslexia and ADHD do not need to be fixed. They just need someone that will understand them and speak their language. Okay? So that's where we come in, and it's not just my story. We have so many other mentors that work for us from all over the world, because they have their own stories, and most guaranteed if you've gone through adversity, someone is going through it right now? Yeah, so all we're doing is we're taking that kid who's trying afraid to walk into that classroom, and we'll match him or her to the older version of themselves based on interests, based on passions and also challenges. And it's incredible. You. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

the feedback, Jake, the feedback I have heard from those who participate, either receiving mentorship or being a mentor, is phenomenal. It's powerful,

Jake Sussman:

yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's something that, you know, it's not just for the kids, but the mentor. I mean, I healed my childhood because it was so painful. Okay? I healed my childhood through working with these kids, because I'm working with sixth grade Jake every day, so I had an opportunity to go back in time and that for college transition folks, okay, to have someone that has been in that freshman year, that first semester, to help them transition into that new environment, because transitions are challenging for people with learning differences. Right to help them transition is a game changer for these kids. Yeah,

Donell Pons:

Jake, you've mentioned so many important things, and one of those, I just love you telling your own personal story about your approach to college, because we don't give ourselves enough space to say, hey, everybody else may be doing it this way. This may be an expectation, but it's okay to do it the way I need to do it. That's a huge message right there. Do it the way you need to do it. That's really powerful, and that would help so much just in the beginning, right?

Jake Sussman:

Absolutely. And I'll say to people like it's interesting, because when you look at school, and this may be a little complicated, and I want to try and do my best to explain this, because it's something that and I would love your thoughts on this as well, but we have a really interesting observation that we're seeing right now, is that, why does someone with a learning difference struggle in college? Let's just put it right there, because they've gone through middle school and high school, they've gotten the support they've needed. Why all the sudden we're reinventing the wheel in college? What happened, and I think something that we've missed, is these kids relationship with time. Okay, so when you're in high school or in middle school, you show up at an ungodly hour, and you sit at your desk and you're there all day. Okay? High School, you rotate classes. You may have two free periods, and it's up to you to choose what you want to do during those times, but you really are there when it comes time for college, you have to seek it out. Right? The syllabus, by the way, which is a, it's a, it's a, it'll tell you exactly what's happening that semester in the class. If you don't know how to read a syllabus, you are going to go show up and you're going to be things. Randomness will come, but it is not random because it's already there. We just have to be taught how to go through the syllabus in pre play on our calendars, and then we could be ahead of the game. I think a lot of kids with learning differences struggle when they have that reality check, like, a few weeks in and they're all of a sudden to be hired, and they shut down because they they're like, I guess it's too much for me to handle.

Donell Pons:

Yeah, yeah. You know, Jake, you put up some interesting points. And I think they're things we don't take advantage of enough today that are available to us, and one of those is this choice thing, because not only do we have choice about whether I have to drive and show up to a campus or I could even do maybe online, and I could choose to try both and see which one works best for me, maybe I'm not great with in person experiences, so maybe I'll try some more online classes. So these are conversations that we ought to be encouraging young people to have prior to even thinking about getting into those classes. The other thing is, maybe I'm not an early morning person, so then don't take an early morning class. You don't have to look and take a different class. The other piece like that, you're you're mentioning too, that I think is really important is so take a look at what the course content is that's all online. It's not a secret. Take a look through it. You have the right to look for what's there for the course, and if that looks like something you wouldn't be interested in, or you see some things you should be saying, well, maybe that's not a good fit for me. I'll choose something else. This idea of having choice and not having to do something right? I don't think we exercise that enough. Do you right?

Jake Sussman:

And having choice is something that we're not used to. Yeah, we're not used to choice, and something that COVID has taught us, if we look hard enough, is that, how do we navigate unpredictability? Okay, in choice, when you have choice leads to unpredictability, and it makes us uncomfortable, right? So something when we're in the state of asking when we have options, we always recommend ask, why and where is this coming from? Why do I Why am I not a morning person? Do I want to be a morning person? Because I think what it could be if they change the circadian rhythm, which is a whole another conversation, but like, right, right? But like asking why is really important, because we have to decipher, is this an emotional decision or logical decision, right? Am I not? Do I not want to do this or participate in this because it's because I'm uncomfortable by it, which, by the way, it may not be such a bad thing. Or am I? Is it actually not a good fit for me? And these are. Conversations to have that we always recommend ask someone. It's always good to get feedback, right? We can't Captain a ship on our own. We gotta need our crew. Patrick, I

Donell Pons:

love this. I love this so much. And thinking that you're promoting these conversations peer to peer for folks to have at this age. Gosh, it's all so great. I wish I'd have had something like this when I was younger, right? Me

Jake Sussman:

too. Me too. Honestly, that's right, yeah.

Donell Pons:

Oh, Jake, you got me thinking about so many things. And then another important piece that you brought up is this piece about where you choose to attend, so where you choose to go to take your classes, to begin your educational experience, can be really important as well, right, Jake, because some of these institutions and places that you may attend are say, let's say, more open, maybe better prepared to provide the kinds of supports that students may need who learn differently, right?

Jake Sussman:

Absolutely, and I want to just add to this, because it's really good to practice. I mean, college is like the training grounds of life. It really is. You know what I'm saying? I mean, high school, middle school, teaches you how to learn, but college, you're, you're kind of figuring this thing out with a little bit of a safety net. Okay? The thing is, when it comes to navigating, do I want to go to a big school, small school, in person, virtual, we have to ask, how do I learn and what do I have? Do I crave stimulation? Do I need to be peace? I walk a mile in my little office? You know? I need to move. So if I'm going to be sitting down in one place all day virtually, that's not going to stimulate my mind enough versus walking back and forth for classroom. So we have to really ask ourselves these things. And I would say, no matter where we choose to go, I think something that a lot of kids, unfortunately, this idea of teacher's pet has gotten in our heads for those social just conversations like you don't talk to the teacher. Don't be their friend or not your friend. Keep the boundary if you want to survive college in life, the most important thing is knowing how to talk to authority. Okay, so like I told you about the crew, you would have to sail a ship with a crew. So if our mission when we go to a new place, college or the workplace, right, is we have to create our crew, find them. So you have your professors, maybe it's the accessibility office, maybe it's it's a lunch person, right? I eat a lot, so I became friends with the lunch staff, and they gave me free food all the time. Okay? So that I had to, because these were my crew that made that, that were advocating for me. So no matter where you go, a 10,000 30,000 person school to a 5000 person school, the mission is for you need like five people to know your name, we gotta do it, because if you're not, you're just a number, and when they look at your grade, they won't know that there's a lot going on in this person. Maybe they're an auditory versus visual learner. They don't know. So

Donell Pons:

yeah, and you know that's advice for life, because it even with you, take that with you beyond college, right into any setting, is to have that crew. I love the crew advice. That's fantastic. Gosh, I know I want to be in your mentor program. I think it sounds fantastic. So Jake, tell me what? So we know we're loving this. I'm hearing feedback. I get to see it firsthand. It's fantastic. What is your vision for what you're doing?

Jake Sussman:

I love this question. It's my favorite question. So our vision, there's a lot. First of all, we're going to lower the college dropout rate without a doubt. Okay, we want to be the preferred mentorship solution in the country, because we're changing the game and how to reach people, specifically those with learning disabilities. Okay, our world has a lot of problems, and the only way to fix these problems is by those who look at problems differently, and those are the nerd that's the neurodiverse community, and we're losing them because they're not being reached. I know today there is a future Elon Musk who is crying to his mom so pained by school because no one understands him or her, and we're losing talent in in problem solvers due to just the fact that no one knows how to communicate to these people, we want to bring them up and give them a platform to embrace who they are. Okay, that's our mission. And we want to partner with schools all over the country, organizations, you know, families. This is, this is the future. I mean, it's the. Number One feedback that we get from our families is that their kids have gotten more out of their mentor than any professional they've ever worked with. There's a reason for that. There's a reason for that. Jacob,