Literacy Talks

Back to School, Back to Basics: A Reading Reset

• Reading Horizons • Season 8 • Episode 1

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In this season-opening episode of Literacy Talks, Stacy Hurst, Donell Pons, and Lindsay Kemeny kick off the school year with a powerful conversation about the value of a reading reset. Whether you're a classroom teacher, literacy coach, or tutor, this episode will help you reflect, refocus, and realign your instruction with what matters most: evidence-based reading practices grounded in Structured Literacy.

From analyzing student data and setting intentional goals to refining your Tier 1 instruction and building momentum that lasts, this episode is full of actionable insights to help you start the year strong. Plus, the trio shares tips for new and seasoned educators alike, along with thoughtful reflections on maintaining motivation and meeting every reader’s needs—no matter where they begin.

It’s a fresh start for a new season. Let’s get back to school—and back to basics.


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Read the transcripts.

Stacy Hurst:

Welcome to this episode of literacy talks. It is our first episode of our new season, and we're so happy you're here. My name is Stacy Hurst, and I'm joined by Donnell Pons and Lindsay Kemeny, and we are going to title this episode reading reset, and we're going to let Donnell lead the conversation. So Donnell, without further ado, we will turn the time over to you. Great.

Donell Pons:

Thank you, Stacy, I think this is a really fun topic. It's fun to think of a reset. And I think we all kind of decided that would be a good way to frame up, looking at this coming year as a restart, a reset, an opportunity, and looking at it that way, every year is an opportunity in your teaching. And so that's what we're going to discuss today, is this reset and a reset in reading, and how we approach reading. And so this can be for any grade as well. Want to make that clear that if you're an educator that's teaching high school students, if you're someone who works with college students that you know are struggling with reading and writing, there will be something for you to take away. So that's also stay tuned and keep listening, because there will be something for you. And it's how to reframe and how to reset with back to school and the science of reading, and that's one way to think of it as well. And so there'll be lots of references to resources that are free and available. Some of them will be past podcasts that we've had. We're just reminding you that maybe there might be some resources there, and then maybe some books and things that we've also talked about in podcasts in the past. And maybe, if you've looked at those, it might be a time to pull them out and take a look at them again and say, yeah, yeah, and refresh yourself with some of that information, because we realize there is a lot of information. But just to begin, when we talk about the reading reset, and we want to say, let's talk about, why is this important? Why would a reading reset be important when we're thinking about back to school? I'm going to throw that to both Stacy and Lindsay and Lindsay, maybe I'll have you lead

Lindsay Kemeny:

out. Well, I you know, it makes me think of reflection, and it's always important to take some time to reflect on your own teaching practice and maybe what you're doing well and what you can do a little better. So I think we've all had the experience where we've had a rather big reset, where for me, when I learned about evidence based literacy instruction and how some of the things I was doing were not what's best for kids, was not aligned with research. So I had to do a lot of shifting and changing. But then every year I feel like I get a little better. And you know, every year you're kind of deciding, okay, what, what am I doing moving forward? Am I changing anything? What am I focusing on? What do I want to be a little better at this year? So, you know, I love, I love back to school time. It's also a stressful time, but I think it's an exciting time, because it is you're, it's like you're starting off with this fresh, you know, slate and like here, here we go, here's what I'm going to do this year.

Stacy Hurst:

I echo that, and I think back to when I was a an elementary student myself, and the night before the first day of school was more exciting to me than Christmas Eve. I think it was just and I try to approach that as a teacher, I tried to approach the New Year that same way. And I do remember my time in the in the elementary classroom every month kind of Marches along, right? And you feel like at some point you're just keeping up and and doing the best you can do, and making notes of, Oh, next year when we get to this point in instruction, I want to do this, or whatever. I have had a very interesting transition as I'm teaching higher ed, because we get to do that every semester. But I think I've also seen the value of that reset mindset every semester. Just and it doesn't have to be a total overhaul, just making those little changes that can make a big difference things you've been wanting to focus on, and maybe just choosing one to not be overwhelmed and say, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure that I focus on this and make improvements

Donell Pons:

for listeners just thinking About so what are those elements that we're talking about? We're going to also have you direct your attention back to some past season that we had where we talked about structured literacy, and we really broke down all of those elements, and we had some fantastic guests on too that are really experts within each of those domains to talk about the importance of it. How does it integrate? Because we talked a lot about structured literacy and integration. So I like that each of us talking about, you can emphasize a piece, and maybe you need to do a little more here, and then drawing it all back together is key, is critical. And so for those who are listening and they're saying, okay, refresh me at those structured literacy pieces, maybe that's new for me. Maybe I'm focused on a piece, but don't really remember. But the other pieces we're talking about with structured literacy, the elements are phonemic awareness, good, solid pa phonics at the foundation of it, orthography, morphology, vocabulary, syntax, and not just comprehension, but discourse comprehension, which Louise spear swirling in her book on structured literacy, is quick to point out, it's discourse comprehension, so that's listening and reading, and it's beyond the sentence level, so it's getting into what things mean and getting into deeper meaning. So I thought that was really interesting, too. And Louise Burling, she was one of our guests last season, too. So if you missed that episode, I highly recommend going back and listening, because she is always so good. She has her great, structured literacy book. So if any of these pieces are new or different or you want more information, that would be a nice place to start. So those are the pieces that we're talking about when we talk about it. And then, how do you teach that? So those are the what we're teaching. And then, so what are the how pieces? Well, it's explicit and systematic, and there's attention to the prerequisite skills that students need to have in order to get to those other skills, and then there's good prompt feedback that gives students really good information. And there's also instructional planning, so that's also a key piece, and that's why this is a really great conversation, because we can be looking forward to those things that I really want to emphasize this time, that maybe I was just getting my feet wet last year with my class. This year, I'm refocusing. So those are the things that we're talking about. We're talking about, what are the structured literacy? What's the science of reading? What are the evidence based practices? That's what we're talking about in reading. And they're all essential, those pieces, and they all go together. They're integrated, and you don't really miss out on any of them. But sometimes, as we've talked about, maybe there's a piece that was easier, maybe there's a piece that's a little harder. And Lindsay, you've been fantastic because you've done a bit of writing, I should say just a bit of writing. Lindsay's got a few books out to help us in this space, particularly in that k3 space, and it's very helpful. But Lindsay, you had a book that kicked you off, and then you've also added additional resources. But the first book that really got attention for good reason, because it did provide some of those. What do I do? How do I just do start with something seven mighty moves. Was the book seven mighty moves. So Lindsay, if there is someone sitting out there going, geez, you know, this year, I do want to kick it up a notch. I'd like to boost it. You really do have some good recommendations.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, definitely. And those you know the it's categorized like when I was making changes in my classroom and as work, as I was working with my son, who was diagnosed with dyslexia, I just found I could organize those changes into those seven moves. So those are those seven big moves or changes I made in my classroom after learning about the research, you know, one of those teaching phonemic awareness intentionally and and I had to move like several times there, because first I just had to know that it was a thing, and you had to teach it, and then I had to refine my knowledge. And isn't that what we're doing all the time, especially as we're thinking about this reading reset, we're refining what we know teaching phonics explicitly is a huge one, and sometimes the science of reading gets a bad rap because people think it's just about phonics. But you know, a lot of our attention and efforts went to phonics, because that was, like, the area that was the weakest. So that just makes sense to me. You know, when a patient comes into the hospital, you've got to stop the bleeding before you focus on some of the other things that might be wrong. And to me, that that's kind of like like that, where we were, like, really just expecting students to pick it up on their their own. But so that's not the only move, though, because we had, you know, and the seven mind moves goes into other moves, like being really intentional with our fluency, with our practice, so students can develop fluency using reading strategies in a better way in order to promote that vocabulary and background knowledge and understanding how background knowledge plays a role into reading and putting text at the center all these, all these things right come into play here.

Donell Pons:

Yeah. And Stacy, how about you for because pre service teachers, that's a big ask, and you've now been doing it for long enough to have students probably give you feedback as well. They probably get out to their placements, and you get some feedback. And I bet that's very useful and helpful. How have you adapted what you teach Stacy? What are kind of shifts and modes that you've had as well?

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, well, you know, it is all based on, well, I wouldn't say all, but much of it is that feedback and holding it up to what I know about structured literacy instruction, and I have the added complexity of teaching my students the components of structured literacy at this. Same time as I'm teaching them how to teach them, preparing them to be able to do that. So a lot of my adjustments at this point are really related to refining the how and and their knowledge about some components of it, too. But I think one of the things that I'm focusing on, for example, this coming year, is just refining the way that my students look at data and what they can glean from that. I think that's so important early on, to get a lens on how to interpret those scores or what you're seeing from your student and how that can guide instruction. So that's where I'm focusing on a little bit. And we do have really good alignment with some of our other expectations, like they have to take a test that helps them to apply some of that knowledge about the Foundations of Reading, and then also just, you know, their performance going forward as a teacher, and yeah, we do get feedback and looking forward to getting more, but some of it is along the lines of, I know, initiatives that will prepare in service teachers with more information about structured literacy our students are already familiar with some of those things, which we've gotten a lot of feedback about that, but you can always refine and that will change, right? So just like Lindsay was saying about refining her teaching of phonemic awareness, like we're learning new things all the time, but I really have seen already if you're if you're like, grounded in the foundation of the science of reading, then those changes will not be epic. They're going to be sometimes larger than others, but never an overhaul, right? So reset is the perfect word for that, I think.

Lindsay Kemeny:

And I just wanted you know that piggyback on what Stacy was saying about data, and it's so wonderful that she's focusing on teaching her pre service teachers about how to use data. We're in back to school mode here, and that is a big thing I do in preparation for back to school, is I'm looking at data. So I actually, I mean, you guys both know, like, I'm a nerd and I'm a data nerd, and so one of the first things I do I when I get my list of students for my new class is I look at their end of year kindergarten data. So I am going to be doing some beginning of the year testing, but, you know that's not going to happen day one, and I like to just be as prepared as possible day one. So I go back and I look at their end of year data, and I kind of categorize, I'll sort my students into little groups of what I see, who's on track overall, who is not. And then I'll look deeper, and I'll say, I kind of like will list them who, you know, got the most, and the the data, the assessment we use in my district and state is Acadians. And I love that reading screener, so I'll take it, and I'll kind of group students with who is, who is reading those little CVC nonsense words like automatically, and is already blending those and just reading the whole word and how many they get in a minute, and who is not, and about how many sounds in a minute are they getting. And so I will look, and then the phonemic awareness assessment too, which is like the first sound fluency in Acadians, and they're segmenting, and so I will look, and I kind of already group my students. I know things can change over summer, but this gives me a good starting off point where, and I use that information for things like, I'll make my seating charts just to start off. And I know, hey, students that are need a little bit more help. I'm gonna put them in certain places, on the rug and at their desks where I know I can get there a little easier. I'm gonna put them next to someone that's a little stronger than them. Like, there's just all these things I'm really intentional about. And it's like, yeah, I'm not gonna solely use that piece of information, like things are gonna change, and I'm really flexible, like with my groupings, once I know my students and we do more assessments, things are gonna change. But it really helps me at the beginning of the year just to get an idea,

Stacy Hurst:

yeah, and I know you were piggybacking off of my comment. Can I do that with yours too? And that is fantastic. I just hope for my students that they end up doing that as their own teachers. But if you're in a position in a school as an instructional coach or a literacy coach, that is also scalable. When I was a literacy coach, I did that for my teachers. We did not wait six weeks for all the beginning of the year assessment to happen to put students in intervention groups. We took the data from the end of year, and we had dibbles at the time. It was before cadence, and we could start, we could hit the ground running. And my job I was, I oversaw the paraprofessionals who were conducting those small groups, and was responsible for scheduling that. So you can do that, you can start early. We saw great gains when you can start those intervention groups day one. So that's a really good, good model, Lindsay, and if all classroom teachers were doing that too. It would just make many hands make light work. You know,

Donell Pons:

it's interesting because I was drawn to a quote that I had read from Louise bearling again in her structured literacy. It was at the beginning reader profile experts. Remember, what you're both talking about are reader profiles. Each of our students has a reader profile. Reader profile experts are more likely to recognize patterns in data and grasp their implications. That's both are saying that very same thing right there. So if you're looking for them, you know what you're looking for. That data is really important, and you do want it, and you know what to do with it. And Lindsay, I love what you said too, about being flexible, and that's not just in classroom, but also as a tutor as well. So a lot of times the reader profile, and that's what drives us entirely. So when you're talking about in the classroom, it might not be so obvious, but one on one in a tutoring situation, it definitely is right. You're working with this one student, but that flexibility still remains, and we're driven by data as well. You need to work with that student, but flexibility always because the student may surprise you in some things, and then you also need to be ready to pivot and move. So this has been a really interesting conversation so far for me, in thinking about educators of all backgrounds who might be listening, and thinking about ways in which they could pick up some of this information and carry a little bit within their classrooms. And I'm hoping that it's feeling doable. That's the other piece, because what we've talked about so far, to me, feels really doable. Lindsay, you haven't suggested or recommended anything too outrageous. We're talking about data we're going to gather anyway. Stacy, you even talked about, well, look at year end data from last year. That's helpful, too. So these are pieces that should feel like, oh, I might be able to grasp a piece of that, even if some of it might feel difficult. I'm wanting to talk a little bit about the nitty gritty. So once that teacher gets that reader profile, How can teachers who maybe aren't terribly familiar weave explicit instruction in phonics, vocabulary and comprehension into their daily routines? It might feel difficult, but let's talk a little bit about an example of what that might look like. Lindsay, what about what do you think?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, well, you definitely, I mean, you're talking about all these reading, reader profiles, but the first thing, like, the most important thing, is to have as strong of a tier one as you can. Like, what are we doing in that tier one instruction? Because so many things can be prevented and helped by having that strong tier one. And as a former intervention teacher, you could see, you could tell a difference honestly in the students like that. I was was, you know, giving intervention to with the ones who had strong tier one instruction and the ones who didn't. And so, you know, in the lower grades, I It's okay to think, Okay, this is the phonics part of my day where my main goal is phonics. Okay, now here is, you know, more my vocabulary and comprehension part of the day and and my main goals with this lesson, you know, has to do with that, but you're also integrating. And I think we've talked about this before on the podcast where it's like, yeah, my main goal I'm in my phonics lesson. My main goal is, is teaching those letter sound correspondences and that phonemic awareness. But guess what? I we're going to talk about what that word means as as well. We're going to put it in the sentence. We're going to talk about what that means. We're going to read our decodable text. And we're not just gonna, like, ignore what is happening in the story of the Decodable text. So we want to bridge that all in and you get better at that over time, like at first, especially if teaching phonics explicitly is new to you, it might be overwhelming to think, Oh, also, all these other things added in. But so you might just do, you know, one little thing at a time, but like, as you get better, and that will come and you'll be like, Oh yes, okay, or oh my gosh, I have so many English learners. I need to do a lot. I need to have a lot of that tier one vocabulary. I need to embed a lot of that into my phonics, because what's the point if they don't know what you're talking about, right? So, you know, I think this is where it's it's an art. You take what you know and you learn how to integrate other things into it.

Donell Pons:

And Stacy thinking about that, what are some of the challenges? That new teachers have, you probably see things that maybe are difficult or challenging for new teachers. What are some of those things that might be difficult for the new teacher in the classroom when we're talking about all this?

Stacy Hurst:

Well, maybe because I'm just myopically focused right now on on that assessment data and how to translate it into targeted instruction, but I do think that it is how to gain a sense of that reader profile, right of that reader's profile and everyone's different. We do have assessment, and I think assessment is key here, so helping teachers understand that assessment and the value that it can bring. And I know Lindsay. I've heard you say this a million times. There's no point in looking at data if you're not going to interpret it like and you can have and I'll just use terminology that is probably familiar with. People who use the cadence or DIBELS or something like that, because they color code the data. So the students who are in the red category, which we would call intensive. You can have 20 students in that zone, and they all have different reasons. They're there, right? So if you find, if you find that you're perplexed about what is happening with the student, maybe look at the assessment, not necessarily ones that have already been given that you're made to use, but choosing one that will help you get to the the profile of that student, what they really need, and a very good starting place are these theoretical concepts that we've been learning about, like the simple view of reading, for example. Are there deficits in the decoding realm? Are there deficits in the language realm? And if so, find assessment that will match up with that and find out what they need in instruction. And then what do you need to teach? And I know I'm oversimplifying this, but we talked about all those resources with structured literacy, but also Scarborough reading rope, that's what you need to be teaching to help inform and help those strands come together for the student. So I would say it can be overwhelming to know which assessments to use and how to interpret the data, but once you can do that, the story tells itself. It really does, and you really will know what that student needs. So take us a step

Donell Pons:

further, and both of you can answer this one, but Stacy, if you want to pick it up, because you kind of brought us to the door, and I'm going to take us through. So for that teacher who says, Great, I've looked at my data. I do have I see these areas, I'm getting a picture. But how do I teach this? So it doesn't feel like I'm doing pull out constantly for those because that's oftentimes what I hear from teachers is, well, I would have to be doing pull out all the time. And all the time. What's our response to that?

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, well, developmentally, what needs to happen in the brain needs to happen for everybody, right? So it really is for some students, if you're doing, if you're addressing those issues whole class, and you do look at your data whole class, you can say, you know, I have many students with this challenge, so I'm it would be appropriate to address it in tier one, depending on what it is, as well. You Why not take a few minutes to address it in tier one? It will be a review for some. It will not be harmful to those students who already have mastered whatever you're focusing on. There are probably many ways to look at that. And I'm sure Lindsay could add more context, because she's in the thick of it. But that would be, initially, what I would say,

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, I would agree, like you can look at patterns across all your students to say, oh, yeah, okay. Like 60% of them, or 70% of them, you know, didn't do too well here, or could use support here, and that can help inform what you do. Also, I wouldn't jump like at the beginning of the year. You know, sometimes you have a lot of students in red or yellow, and when I say that, I'm talking about the Acadians, but like, where they're well below or below benchmark, but some of those students are going to come up just with strong tier one, or like when I taught second grade, and I share this a lot, in a presentation where I started a class wide reading intervention, because I had so many students that were so far behind and and Some of that, you know that class wide intervention and just your class wide instruction really helped shrink the amount of students who were below or well below, and and so then, okay, that's much more manageable to be thinking, Oh, I've got about five students that I'm like, really providing more Intense intervention for than, like half your class. So, yeah, I definitely think looking at patterns and again, like my best defense, my first line of defense is a strong, strong, strong tier one.

Donell Pons:

Yeah, absolutely that explicit, systematic instruction with all those components. What's interesting when you two are both talking, yeah, I'm thinking of older. Students. So there might be folks who are thinking about, what do you do once a student is older? Here's what's really interesting. As an English teacher, I learned very quickly that when there are reading challenges, and they're pretty widespread, which you'll oftentimes find, like, say, a whole seventh grade class, and you've got a large number of students who are struggling with basic skills of reading and writing. So they're coming out of other schools, feeder schools, that probably didn't have good instruction. So that's why you'll be seeing quite a few students oftentimes. I was in a situation like that for one of my first teaching opportunities in English, and I realized that that was happening. I was getting a whole lot of students that hadn't received basic skills. And so there I did the very same thing you guys are talking about. Well, if the data is telling me which it did, told me that my students need help with these basic skills, then I'm going there. I'm going to teach what my students need. Now, others would say, but didn't you have an expectation of grade level material? And I did, and so I was creating scaffolds to help my students be able to meet that text. And was I able to Yes, we were able to do it. So it took some thought. Obviously, it took a lot of effort on my part because I hadn't received the training. You guys are so lucky because you have the podcast and so many other resources. So yay for you. But early in those days, this was new information, really new information. We've all talked about how we came to be here, and it was, you know, different routes to get here. None of it was direct for any of us. I think we've all talked about having gone through teacher programs that taught us a lot of really good things, none of which had to do with reading. And in the end, we found out reading was essential, and was probably the key component for a lot of our students. And so I was just thinking how much this applies also to older students. Then you meet them where they are, and figure out how to help them get the skills that they need. And there are resources for that as well. This has really got me thinking you guys about I mean, first of all, would love to have any of my children in any of your classrooms at any time. That would have been great. And Stacy would love to have been a teacher in your teacher prep program would have been fantastic for me. But just thinking, for educators who are like, Okay, you guys have gotten me excited. This feels really, really good. How do you maintain momentum? So we might get excited, and it might be challenging, but we're obviously going to get to some hurdles, and you guys know that those hurdles exist. What's your advice for that person who's listening to say, Yes, I'm excited now, and I think I even have a focus. But what happens when three weeks in I run out of steam a little bit and things get difficult because we've all been there, what are some recommendations that you have to kind of keep the momentum going? Stacy, what do you think?

Stacy Hurst:

And I'm gonna, yeah, mine will be a little bit more high level. And I'm thinking about about teachers in the classroom right now, I would say, be very clear on whatever area you're resetting or wanting to focus on, set a goal, and I think that is motivating, because if you see progress towards that goal, then that is going to maintain that momentum or energy and keep you going. And if you're not seeing the progress, that's okay too. Realign right? Ask yourself the questions, am I giving the right kind of assessment? What can I change in my instruction? And there are a lot of resources, but I would say that, and then looking for the wins, looking for. I you know what? This is. One thing I am actually teaching my students to do in their profile work too, because we are so conditioned to look for the weaknesses. We're so conditioned to look for what is a student need, what does the student need? But their strengths also help inform those weaknesses. So looking for those bright spots, what can your students do? What have you seen change as a result of your teaching? Right that they couldn't do at the beginning of the year? One thing that I did for writing my students wrote every day, and I I knew of srsd, but I did not apply it in my classroom. I wish, like you're saying, Daniel, I wish I had had that information when I was teaching. But we did write every day, and I put date stamps in their journal, and like, over the course of a year, you could just pull those and look at how much progress your students have just made in that area. So looking for that progress. Don't get so hung up on what you feel like, even as a teacher, your weaknesses look for your own strengths, too. Glows and grows, we call them, but and set a goal and measure it and work towards it.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah. And I would say, okay, so to keep your momentum going, I would say, find a friend who you someone safe that you can vent to. Because I think we all need, like, you know, we all need, sometimes, to let a little steam out, right? So a safe place where you can do that, but also someone that inspires you. And kind of. Encourages you to keep going when it does get tough. And I would say, like, I love doing pre assessments, my assessments as early in the year as possible, because that really keeps me going to see the growth. I love doing a pre assessment in writing like that first week of school. And you know, maybe after three weeks you're not going to see the hugest jump, but maybe after six to 10 weeks, you are. And for me, it's so motivating to be like, that's because of me, like, that's because of what I taught them. And it won't be perfect, but you still, you see improvements in, like, their letter formation, their handwriting and spacing, the content, the, you know, the spelling. I think it's really motivating to me. Same with, you know, with like, first grade, we start the year like, with the letter names and sounds, because they don't all come in knowing or remembering that from kindergarten. And that's one that's really fun, that you will see a difference. And I remember even just last year where I assessed a certain student on how many letter names and sounds he did, and then I normally wouldn't assess that the very next week, but I did, because I was a little frustrated that there was a problem with our beginning of the year screener, and they still hadn't administered it. And I was like, it's not gonna be as accurate, because they've been in school learning. And so, like, a week later, you know, I assessed him, and he had like, nine more letter names and sounds than he did the week before. And I'm like, I mean, that is exciting when you like, can see those results. So for me, that really helps to keep me going and give me momentum. And even if it's a puzzle, like, if you're like, oh my gosh, this, this student, hasn't made huge growth. Well, look at it as like, you know, be the detective. Figure it out. I've got to do something, maybe different, maybe more intentional, maybe more time, maybe smaller group. What can I do to figure this out? So I don't know. Those things help me to keep going.

Stacy Hurst:

Donnell, I have a question for you, because you're in a you tutor like you don't necessarily have a you tutor all year, right? Year round. So your students have a reset, in the sense that some of them are in school and they start a new year, but you are consistently with them. So I guess. And as Lindsay is you and I have been talking about this too, I can't help but think of some things like the summer slide, which Donnell, I know you prevent for your students that are in school like they're continuously growing because they're getting your your instruction. But how do you like? What does reset mean for you in that situation, and how do you maintain that momentum? Because you are with them all the time.

Donell Pons:

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, because as I'm listening to both of you, things resonate that also are applicable within a tutoring setting as well, and it's those you know, celebrating those gains that you see, making sure that you're you are taking opportunities to recognize that for you and for the student, right, to keep them motivated. And then I also think interest, maintaining interest, can be challenging in a tutoring setting, because it's you and that student. You're not changing a new teacher and setting every year that kind of gives it a new glow, right? Maybe, maybe there are things you liked better about the year before, but there are new things that you gain. It's just you and that student, right? For which can be four years, depending on the difficulties and challenges and what is you're trying to accomplish with a student. So it can be the two of you for years. And for me, that's been the bigger challenge. Is maintaining interest, helping my student maintain interest, because it's really great the beginning, when you get a bunch of new skills that you didn't have before, and you can really grab a student's attention by being able to teach them things that somebody else was unable to because they didn't have the background to help their student. So you get might get their attention rather quickly, and they glob right on, like, oh my gosh, I'm learning these things for the first time, maintaining that over the next so many years, as you increase your student skill, that can be tricky, that can be challenging, because they also, not only are they getting older, and the two of you have been together a while, their interests are changing too, right? These people are maturing. Your students are maturing. Oftentimes, I get students who are already for fifth grade and still reading it like that, even a pre reader skill. I mean, I've had some students, it's just been really very, very difficult to receive a student in fourth or fifth grade who still is a pre reader and to take that student so early gains are very great for that student. They're very interested in the beginning, but they still have a lot of ground to be made up and and, but with that. I always say we set goals, because it's always asking the student, as they mature and get older, what is it that you would like to accomplish? So I think, as a tutor, that becomes a lot of the focus and attention is helping your student be part of that learning journey, and having them have some some sort of say over it by saying, Well, I would really like to be able to do this or that. I'd like to be able to read this text. My friends have always read it. I would like to attempt it. So we talk about what it would take to get there, and then we work towards those things. The other thing is, I think picking materials or choosing materials that are interesting to the student and providing background knowledge for the students, so they feel like they're really gaining something, not just learning the skills which you're teaching that explicit, systematic we're teaching the phonics and the phonemic awareness, perhaps if needed, morphology, vocabulary, syntax, but we're doing it within the context where they feel like they're really gaining something, so that when they go back into a classroom, they feel enriched. So they're bringing something, maybe additional into a classroom for the time that they've had to spend outside of the classroom. Those are the kind of the challenges I run into.

Stacy Hurst:

Thank you for answering that question, and I think it kind of brings to light too that a certain percentage of our students are going to have those long term needs that are more intensive than the typically developing reader, and as it no matter the role you play in that child's life, it's more important to focus on those glows and to make sure you're because it's a long road, right? And Lindsay, I know you've had students that you've done a lot for, too, and then get they you have to pass them on. And you know that their their journey to being a proficient reader is more uphill than others, and so I think that's an important point. Thank you for answering that question. Yeah.

Donell Pons:

And you know, Stacy, it's interesting because I just had a conversation I've mentioned many times my son, who has dyslexia now he's older. He's in his 20s. He's doing college. We had this conversation just the other day, which is really interesting. He brought it up himself, talking about, when was it? He was asking me, because, of course, as you say, the journey was long. And he said, When was it, Mom, that you noticed that I finally got it? And I said, What do you mean by got it? And he said that I was reading, that I was able to read fluently, and that I was enjoying it. When did you notice? I thought that was really interesting. I had to. I said, Wow, that's a really great question. I've got to think about that, because there was so much work. And I thought back, okay, let's see. It definitely wasn't fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, and we did some middle school tutoring. Hmm. I said, Boy, I don't think I really noticed until about high school, ninth or 10th grade, and my son said for him, it felt like a click, because he said it was just all hard work. And he said, that's all I remember. It wasn't a day that I went to tutoring, left tutoring and said, Boy, I feel like I'm there. That never happened. He said it was, it was gradual, and then just sort of he realized that he was reading something for enjoyment it. He had picked it up to read it for enjoyment. He said it was just kind of gradual. So I thought that was really interesting, the time and effort that some of the students, like, I say he has dyslexia, some of our students will have to put forth in order to become if, if it's their desire, that's the thing too. You have to ask that student, because they have some autonomy along in this, if it's their desire to continue with this kind of effort. But he really did want to his siblings were reading, and it was something of value to his to those he was around. So he wanted it, but he he does now have it today. The amount of work that it took, though, was pretty extraordinary. So this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much. I mean, it's got me taking back to some of the key pieces that we brought from last season, and bringing them and refreshing them for the reset for this season, for classrooms in any sort of educational setting where we're approaching teaching, reading. I'm just wondering if there's anything any of you want to add that we didn't touch on. Did we get to everything you wanted to say?

Lindsay Kemeny:

I think so. I mean, there's always more I could talk about when we all could, but like, specifically thinking about this, like, back to school. Like, I kind of think of resetting back to school. What do I have to do at the beginning of the year? Which certainly is monumental. There's like, a huge list, but, you know, I talked about, one of the first things I like to do is looking at that data, grouping my students, making my seating chart, knowing that it's all can change and it will change, looking at like, if I have students on IEPs, looking over those IEPs before the so sometimes when we think back to school, we think of all the like putting names on everything, setting up the classroom, but there's like this whole other side. And I can do this other side earlier, because I have to wait till like the very last second to put names on things, because sometimes you get someone who registers like. Like, the day of the open house, and then you have to, like, redo everything and re alphabetize your you know, anyways, so, but it's good, because I can use this opportunity to do those other things. Look at the data, look at the IEPs, look at special challenges. I know some people like it just to be fresh. And like all the students, it's like a blank slate. I like to look at, like, what interventions, what comments did their teacher put in from last year? I want to know about the extreme behaviors. And I feel like I'm pretty good with taking what another teacher says with the grain of salt, right? Like, but for me, it's helpful to know, oh my gosh, this teacher really struggled with the student. So I've got, I'm going to be very intentional when I meet that student at back to school night. I'm going to make sure, like, of course, I want to be greet and talk to every student, but I need to make sure I have some back and forth with that student. And like, start building that relationship. You know, sometimes I have severe, different health challenges students have, or things I need to be aware of. And then I guess another thing I would say is, like, looking at my schedule and like, this is what I hate about the beginning of the year, is sometimes like, you're waiting for your administration to get you the schedule, and someone complains about it, and then it like, changes a couple hours later, and then it changes a couple hours later, and you're like, just recess, and you're be okay, like, so, like, once I get that in, I like, you know, then I want to, like, schedule my block and how everything's gonna go. So those are just some of those important back to school things that might get overlooked when you're just thinking about, you know, back to school, lists, parent welcome letters, you know, all the things.

Donell Pons:

Yeah. Yeah. Lindsay, I like, I like you mentioning when you talk about making sure that you touch base with a student who might have a particular need or something, and taking the time to do that, I always really appreciated that, as the parent of a child in a classroom thinking that's a teacher who understands that not every student needs the same thing at the same time, so a little extra attention here is going to make things run smoothly for everybody. So that's really nice that you mentioned that maybe calm down a little bit if you see a teacher making extra effort here, because overall it makes everything run smoother. I love to see that sometimes

Lindsay Kemeny:

it's nice too, because sometimes there are, like, pretty big needs, and it's kind of nice to know earlier in the summer, so that I can wrap my head around it and maybe do some extra reading about it. Like, you know, I've had a student with select mutism before, or, you know, I've just these different unique situations that it's nice to have some knowledge about. And

Stacy Hurst:

of course, I'm going to be thinking about that first year teacher, or maybe those in their provisional years of teaching, and I think so for you seasoned teachers, these things are going to be like probably old hat. But there are some pieces of advice I give to my students. A this is your first year. Play the rookie card. Do it just because otherwise you risk over stressing yourself and burning out early, just this is your first time getting to know what those students are capable of, getting a sense of your whole class. But here are some ways to expedite that feeling of excitement and confidence. Get to know each of your students individually. Lindsay already mentioned, get to know their data, I would get a copy of last year's yearbook, memorize their faces and their names, know them when they walk through the door day one, names and face if you have the opportunity to reach out to their parents before do that. But also within the first weeks of school, I would make a checklist for every student and make sure that I noticed something positive about that student, and reached out to the parent to share that this is what I'm noticing with your student. Those kind of things will make it go, make your year go so much smoother. You need to not only know your your students, reader profile, but you need to know them as a person, individually and done elements of yet what you were saying about making learning relevant will be helpful there, if you know what their interests are, and you will see, I know this. In my first grade classroom we had, depending on the year, there was a lot of interest in the same thing. So you could turn that. Take that into your whole class as well, and then lean on those people. Lindsay said it find your people. Find somebody that you can turn to as a mentor and ask questions. Don't be afraid of that. Get to know your instructional coaches, your speech and language pathologists in the building, and ask questions you are a detective when you have a student that is stumping you. And finally, I would say, you know more than you think you do. And that actually goes for any teacher, no matter how long they've been teaching. You know more than you actually think you do. So trust that

Lindsay Kemeny:

sometimes, the more I learn, the more I think I don't know. Actually, Jason.

Stacy Hurst:

Good sign that you know more than you think you do. That's what you look for. It's the person who has all the answers that is suspect, right? You know?

Donell Pons:

And I would add, for those who tutor, who are helping support students outside of a school setting, I always like the beginning of the year to help the student get reset for how they're going to be supported, for all their literacy and reading needs, and I like them to give me a little report of what their what they think their challenges are going to be. So I give them a week to get their schedule under their belt. Kind of think about it. And then we start looking at strategies and ways to help them. And they set goals. So we also set goals about this may be challenging right now. Where would you like to see yourself in the next three months with that class? And then we check back to see how do you feel. And often, you know, obviously we make progress, and the students are always happy to do that. That's a way in which you can support the learning in school as well. So that's great. This has been fun. Thank you, Stacy and Lindsay. It's been awesome.

Stacy Hurst:

Yeah, thank you, and thank you for the topic. I do get excited about the idea of resetting. I love it, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna re listen to this episode and gather things that it will help me in my upcoming school year, and I'm sure you all will too. We have an exciting season ahead. Some of the things that we talked about today, we will have some guests that will directly address some of those things. So we hope that part of your reset is resetting time to listen to this podcast and the many others that will help inform our teaching. Help inform all of our teaching. I guess I should say so. Thank you for joining us, and hopefully we will have you as a guest on our next episode of literacy talks.