Literacy Talks
Welcome to Literacy Talks, a podcast from Reading Horizons, where reading momentum begins. Each episode features our trio of literacy champions: Stacy Hurst, an assistant professor of reading at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor at Reading Horizons; Donell Pons, a dyslexia specialist, educator, presenter, and writer, who now works with adults with reading challenges; and Lindsay Kemeny, a dedicated elementary teacher who is a CERI-certified Structured Literacy Classroom Teacher and author of 7 Mighty Moves.
Each episode is a conversation among friends with practical literacy strategies, powerful tips, and a real passion for teachers and students alike. Listen, laugh, and learn with Literacy Talks, brought to educators everywhere by Reading Horizons.
Literacy Talks
Literacy Wins and Wishes: 2025 Recap
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As 2025 draws to a close, the Literacy Talks trio—Stacy, Donell, and Lindsay—gather for a spirited season finale filled with highlights, reflections, and bold predictions. From progress in the science of reading to the growing spotlight on writing, integration, and instructional clarity, this episode captures the momentum and milestones of the past year. They also look ahead to 2026 with insights, hopes, and a few wishes for the future of literacy instruction. Join the conversation that celebrates growth, questions assumptions, and champions the evolving landscape of teaching and learning.
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Welcome to Literacy Talks, the podcast for literacy leaders and champions everywhere, brought to you by Reading Horizons. Literacy Talks is the place to discover new ideas, trends, insights and practical strategies for helping all learners reach reading proficiency. Our hosts are Stacy Hurst, a professor at Southern Utah University and Chief Academic Advisor for Reading Horizons. Donell Pons, a recognized expert and advocate in literacy, dyslexia and special education, and Lindsay Kemeny, an elementary classroom teacher, author and speaker. Now let's talk literacy.
Stacy Hurst:Welcome back to literacy talks. I'm Stacy Hurst, and I get to steer this conversation for our final episode of the year and the end of our season. So thank you for joining us, and as ever, I'm joined by Donell and Lindsay. Hi guys. Hello. We thought we'd close out 2025 with a kind of episode that sort of reflected on the year and sort of thought about what's to come, maybe predictions for the year ahead. So we are going to talk about highlights from the year 2025 and the things that we think are in and out for literacy for the coming year, and then what we're looking forward to 2026 and maybe making some predictions that may or may not come true, but we can at least say, Hey, you heard it here first, in case they do right. Okay, so let's just dive right in, I guess. Let's start with highlights from the year 2025 and I know we probably each have one or two, so we'll just take turns. Lindsay, let's start
Lindsay Kemeny:with you. Okay, I think a highlight of 2025 is that a lot of us, a lot of educators, are kind of moving beyond the basics of the science of reading. You know, a lot of us were focused on getting our phonics instruction where it needs to be, and rightly so, in my opinion, because that's kind of the, I would say, the greatest, you know, maybe the weakest area for a lot of us that were trained in other ways, whole language balanced literacy. I think the week, the weakest thing about those was the way that they approached phonics instruction, or perhaps didn't approach phonics instruction. So I think that's good, and that a lot of us have, you know, started there, but I'm so happy because the science of reading, the science of literacy, goes so much beyond phonics. We know that we talk about that all the time, and I think more and more that, you know, other areas are starting to be included in the conversation. So, you know, we went to a conference this year all about language, right? Language is everything. And so we're seeing more and more conversations around language, around writing, about knowledge building and what, what exactly should we be doing for comprehension? And so I think it's exciting that we're kind of going beyond the basics. A lot of us are ready to tackle more and and really align ourselves with research as much as we can.
Stacy Hurst:I love that you said that, yeah, and I think that it's understandable. You said rightfully so, that we kind of started with phonics because it is very complex, right? Our spelling system is complex, but I agree. I'm kind of excited that at least that foundation is not debated anymore, right? So we can move on once we have a solid understanding. Good.
Donell Pons:Donell, great. Well, mine kind of, one of mine leans into Lindsay's a little bit because I think that'll be a recurring theme. Is, is we're moving beyond I think that's going to turn up a lot, but I think for me, it would have been the new definition of dyslexia from the International Dyslexia Association. That was a big deal this year. And again, I think Lindsay, it also supports your conversation about moving we had a base now we can move on to greater understanding. The definition is a lot longer. There's a lot more to it, and it talks about some specific things. And I think we're ready to move beyond just saying difficulty with reading and spelling and trying to be basic in how we talk about it, and we're there were some specifics mentioned in there, so I think that's a theme, maybe that would be reoccurring, and we're talking about the impact of dyslexia and how it can be on the social and emotional anxiety that's mentioned in there, your livelihood or income, and it's moving the conversation along.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, I love that. And for those of you who did not catch donell's webinar on the new definition, I recommend it. We'll we'll link it in the show notes so you can access it, but you did a really good job Donell of unpacking it and really helping the listener understand. And how, how it's different than the old definition that we've worked with for so long, right? Yeah, so that is an exciting highlight. I'm going to get kind of a little bit more personal on the high my first highlight, my students made some fantastic gains this year, in many ways, as I've been watching their literacy instruction. I just have so much hope for the future, not only because of my students, they're great, of course, but the fact that in higher ed, we're focusing more on making sure that our instruction aligns so our teachers are more prepared. And at my university, well, any university in our state, we do have a measure. We have a Foundations of Reading Test that everybody has to pass before they can get their teaching license, and we have a pretty open admissions policy, I'll just preface by saying that into our program. But my students are doing really well on that test. We have a 93% passing rate right now, and our average is way higher than the cut off. So I think that is a micro example of macro hope. I know I'm not the only professor in the in this country that is focusing on this. We have many other success stories that even supersede that one, but I think that gives us good cause for hope for the future.
Lindsay Kemeny:That's fantastic. Stacy, and you said 93% was the average with your students. That's wonderful. We just need more and more. Like you said, we have a lot of professors out there, I think we even need more and more, right? So that's wonderful.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, it's so true. Okay? Lindsay, what's another highlight from the year.
Lindsay Kemeny:So my second one is a personal one. So in in 2026 I had two more books published. So so exciting. In like March, I had seven mighty moves reading resources, which is a companion to my first book. And then this summer, I had rock your literacy block come out, which and we did a whole episode on that. I guess we did an episode on both of those. So that, just for me, that's that was a great accomplishment, and just a highlight of the year.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, and just so our listeners don't get overly excited, you just barely said 2026 you meant 2025 we can expect great things from Lindsay in 2026 as well. But we're not that part of the program yet, and we're recording this episode in the month of December, so it's natural that we're starting to think it
Lindsay Kemeny:makes sense. Thank you for correcting me. Okay, two books in 2025 I had Yes, yes.
Stacy Hurst:And revisit those episodes, and you'll hear me say, as I'm going to say again, that rock your literacy block was my favorite. And I feel like, Man, I wish I had that information when I was beginning my teaching career. So good, good stuff. Okay, Miss Donell. What's another highlight from the year?
Donell Pons:Yeah, so I want to highlight syntax. I'm just
Unknown:going naturally.
Donell Pons:I love that. Then I think this goes along again, Lindsay, with what you were saying about ready to move forward. We're having bigger and better conversations about how we move forward, what does moving forward look like, and syntax is part of that conversation, which is great. And as we're conversing about language in general, really, syntax is the brass tax, if you're gonna talk about it. So I'm really pleased that we've been seeing more about it at conferences. And then also, Ida had the two parter, part one and part two, all dedicated to syntax that occurred last year. Well, that will be 2025 I'm doing it too. It's tough when you're in just in December. And so that was something that I was really happy to see. And so now we're having conversations about how words go together in a sentence, how they work with each other, the relationship between words in a sentence, and how that impacts our ability to understand what's going on in a sentence and then in a paragraph and in a passage and so on. I think this is fantastic conversation, long overdue to break it down like this. So yeah, that's one of my greats.
Stacy Hurst:And along with those, come more resources for teachers, those of us who don't remember being trained in that kind of a thing, right? And I love that you mentioned the focus on language. Lindsay, you mentioned it earlier too. I'm going to be selfish and just add one more highlight before we move on to the next thing. But I had a an opportunity to have a conversation with Dr Charles Hulme at the IDA conference, and it was a delightful conversation, and just what a great man he is, and his focus on language, along with his wife's Dr Maggie snowling, has really impacted the field. So that was, that was a very personal highlight for me. So thank you for letting me share it. Okay, let's move on to I feel a little bit like Lindsay must feel when she chooses the Lindsay. You choose the topics, like things we disagree about, or things we're grumbly about. We're going to talk about what we think is out, what is out for 2025 and what is in for 2026 so should we just share an out and an in each and then we'll go around? We probably have a lot of these, huh? Okay, Lindsay, you're up. Okay.
Lindsay Kemeny:Three cueing is officially out. I think that there are continued state laws and state mandates. We're seeing that over and over, curriculum audits, all these things. We are phasing three queuing out. I do think we still have some educators that probably need to get on board with this. We know sometimes the information takes a little bit to trickle out, but you know, we have a lot of you know, our statement, our mandating, our curriculum and our instruction materials and everything, not to have three cuing so that is such, I don't know, such a relief, right? We don't want to use these ineffective guessing strategies. And for a long time, we were having arguments over is it guessing or is it not? You know, just call it what it is. It is guessing. And we have more productive ways to teach our students how to decode so break queuing is out some and then something that's in. You want me Tell me something's in right now. Sure.
Stacy Hurst:Okay, so should we do outs and then ins? You guys tell me, yeah, sure. Okay, yeah, we love hearing from you. Okay.
Donell Pons:Donell, yes, what's out? Pa, in isolation, heard it here.
Unknown:Yes, it's officially out.
Stacy Hurst:Thankfully, we know that now, right?
Donell Pons:Yeah, and okay, so we had, we saw firsthand what that looks like to have something rush into the marketplace. Everybody does a feverish, feverish, feverish, and then a settling around what is correct. So it's even you could. We're liking it to the bullseye, if you want to. Got talked about as well that we came right back in and circled back in around where the research was. But thankfully, somebody got the ball rolling with PA to begin with. I appreciate that. Thank you so very much. And now we're saying pa not in isolation, and in fact, nothing in isolation. I'm just going to add that integration, so that will be part of what I talk about next. But yeah,
Stacy Hurst:yeah, you just probably shared my first two ads. But I'll word them differently. Well, I'll share the first one along with pa in isolation, those oversized phonemic awareness blocks of instruction, right? And this is a renewed focus, because this is something I knew clear back in 2001 when I read the National Reading Panel Report, that it doesn't take much. What I didn't know is that if you don't teach if you teach it in isolation, you don't get the gains that you would otherwise. So, yeah, it's officially we, you know, we had this conversation. We've had many episodes focusing on this that, let's call it a kerfuffle that happened over social media about phonemic awareness when the science of reading was just barely getting traction, maybe as a movement, not as a science, but as a movement. And I think that this is the result clarity, right? It's worth having those hard conversations, looking at the research, rethinking the ways you were taught, which I've had to with phonemic awareness. Specifically, I have refined my thinking a lot about this. And I would have to even say, when I started my teaching career in 2001 one, I wasn't far off the mark, considering all the elements of structured literacy that one, I felt like I did pretty well, but there's still a lot to learn and knowledge to refine. So I would like to say you heard it here first, but you didn't. So phonemic awareness and isolation, we're spending too much time on it. Totally out.
Lindsay Kemeny:Yeah, I just thought, I think it just was released another research study. It was like first graders, and they were doing 10 minutes of oral only phonemic awareness. I want to say 10 minutes around there. And again, it had no it improved their phonemic awareness, but nothing. It didn't transfer to word reading or word writing. So we're shortening that. I still spend maybe one minute on this warm up, on blending and segmenting before we start into our phonics. But we don't need those large the time where we're doing all these different activities. Yeah, like, like Donell saying in isolation, not really connected to what we're learning on our phonics or whatever. So yeah for sure.
Stacy Hurst:Okay, Lindsay, what else would you say? Is out, oh, O, U, T, out.
Lindsay Kemeny:Talked about this kind of earlier, but the science of reading is phonics mentality is out. Out we are ready to move beyond that. It is not just phonics. We are including all aspects, like we're just talking about phonemic awareness, phonological awareness, writing fluency, vocabulary comprehension, knowledge, the science of learning. So all the things we mean, all the things when we say science of reading, not just phonics.
Stacy Hurst:Awesome. Okay? Donell,
Donell Pons:okay, banished, never to be heard again. The words Oh, wait and see if that student is struggling to read. Let's wait and see we can finally, they're retired, they're out, they've been banished.
Stacy Hurst:Donell, this actually, is this fact or a wish? I want so badly
Unknown:for it to be a fact? Oh, can I wish it into being? Yeah, yes.
Stacy Hurst:And look, it is a fact with us, right? Yeah, true.
Lindsay Kemeny:If we say it's out, it's out, it's out.
Stacy Hurst:Oh, man, I wish, because that is so detrimental to our students, right? Yeah? Like, I'm working with two students I tutor. I adore them. They're fantastic. But you know what, both of them have IEPs that have wait and see all over it, right? Yeah.
Donell Pons:So it's contrary to knowing what to do, that's the thing. It's just contrary,
Stacy Hurst:yeah, and waiting is not really active, right? Just waiting, yeah, it's not very actionable. Okay, so I we talked about non integrated literacy instruction. I'm just going to highlight that as an out. Donell, you brought it up and so did you Lindsay? We're definitely converging on that one, and we've talked about this next one in our episodes before, too, but I'm going to word it like this, treating the science of reading like a label instead of an instructional system or a body of research that is actionable, right? Those buzzwords that slapping, like the science of reading aligned on something when it's actually not without the practice, the training, or whatever, and I think this might be a little bit more of a wish too, but I do think more people are understanding what we mean when we say the science of reading. So let's say that as a label. I'm not doing this is this science of reading science? We're not going to ask those questions. We're going to know. Okay, what else is out?
Lindsay Kemeny:Lindsay, oh, another out. Can
Stacy Hurst:we do an end? Oh, yeah. Do you want to move to ends? We will move to ends. Can I say one more out, though? Because I have all right. I know, right. I wrote this like this, pretending that teacher proof curriculum exists. That is out. We need to use teacher knowledge. Lindsay, you have something to say?
Lindsay Kemeny:No, I'm thinking about what. Okay, what you mean by
Stacy Hurst:teacher proof? Yeah, like those curriculums that if they meet all of the whatever, I'm not going to name names entities, you know, analyze the curriculum, then you all you have to do is implement it and you'll get the results. That's not true. We need to have knowledge as teachers, because no curriculum is perfect, right?
Lindsay Kemeny:We can't just stand and deliver from a scripted program. It takes our knowledge, our reactions, our students, reactions, US reacting to the way the students are yes, performing, yep, yep.
Stacy Hurst:And I think it's Dr moats, who said before, programs don't teach students.
Lindsay Kemeny:Teachers do Yeah. And the programs have to kind of oversimplify things sometimes, where we have to really get in there and like, make sure it's working.
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Stacy Hurst:Okay, let's talk about inns for 2026 What's your first in?
Lindsay Kemeny:Lindsay? My first in is writing. You know, this is exciting. I have been I'm already like, booked to speak and do lots of presentations and trainings in 2026 and by far the biggest topic that people are asking me to speak about is writing. So I'm really excited. I'm like, Oh, here's another writing one, here's another writing one, here's another writing one. That's gonna be fun. And I'm so happy. And again, this kind of goes back to what we're saying, like. We're more ready for these to, you know, to add in like, because it's overwhelming when you're trying to overhaul everything you're doing at once. But I think more and more of us are getting comfortable with, Okay, I've got this, I'm ready for the next piece. Okay, I've got this, I now I'm ready for this. And so it's exciting that we're focusing more on writing instruction.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, that is exciting. And I think that's the pinnacle of literacy instruction. If a student can write, they are the highest form of literate, right? Yeah, okay.
Donell Pons:Donell, okay, kind of goes along with what Lindsay's saying. It's integrating skills and structured literacy, the renewed conversation in how it is all integrated, and it's everything. It isn't just as we were talking about phonics, but it's also about vocabulary, background, knowledge, comprehension, writing, all of the pieces, and I'm glad to see that that we're hearing more often the word integrating. So that's awesome.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, that it's not just confidential, right? It's like I'm teaching phonemic awareness right now, and then I'm teaching phonics, and now I'm and they're totally separate. We're integrating across those subject areas. I love that too. I'm going to say that what is in is more actual reading across more texts, more time reading for students,
Donell Pons:is that a wish? Oh, yeah,
Stacy Hurst:probably no. Let's put our blinders on and say, No, it is a thing. It is a fact. Will it into being? Will it into being? But, yeah, I think that at least people know that we need to have more time in text, right? Let's assume they know. I guess. Let's okay that probably does fall into a wish, but I think it's, it's great that we're having that conversation. Yeah, yeah. And I know Lindsay, you do a good job of making sure your first graders get that exposure. And Donell, you're not letting your students be limited by their decoding. Ability to have them have exposure to really complex and meaningful texts. And I have been thinking a lot too about some research that's coming to light about the fact that we're not reading as long as we used to anymore, like our stamina is a word I used is maybe our attention is shorter, and passages are something that we focus on a ton of in instruction, which I'm not saying is a bad thing. We need those, but then also to really have lengthy text and have students experience what that's like. Yeah, so I'm going to just say it's in so can we be trendsetters? Yes. Okay, awesome. All right. Lindsay, what else do we have to look forward to
Lindsay Kemeny:trying to well for what's in, right? Yeah, I'm trying to decide which one to say. I think more and more what's in is tier one instruction as the primary focus. We know we can't intervene our way out of a tier one problem. So I think there is more of a focus on MTSS is in and focusing on really strengthening your tier one first. That's kind of our first line of defense. Yes.
Stacy Hurst:And just added an exciting note to that. You probably saw this too, but Matt burns just announced that they have an MTSS journal now, and there'll be lots of exciting research. I think we can read and apply in there. So I agree and to the mindset that tier one is prevention, right? Is really important. Yeah. Okay, Donell, what else is in? Okay?
Donell Pons:Well, I certainly hope this might have to be another wish into being, but looking at the whole student, so I'm hearing a lot more conversation around and in fact, it was stated the plain talk for dyslexia conference actually said, somebody said, If you screen out a child for dyslexia, and then they're diagnosed with dyslexia, you need to look at ADHD, because that's how high it can co occur. And now we're finally having conversations around students. Don't sit in a silo. There could be other challenges or difficulties, please look for those other things so we're not leaving students unsupported and under diagnosed, which I love hearing.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah. And when we had Dr Tim Odegaard on our podcast, we talked about those comorbid diagnoses and the impact they have on each other. So that is great. That is a really great end. I'm going to say another end will be clear use of data to dry drive instruction, like teachers understanding it better, being able to really hone in on it and decide what their student needs based on really good and targeted assessment.
Lindsay Kemeny:So assessment is in it's cool.
Stacy Hurst:You heard it here. Assess is best. It doesn't quite rhyme, Okay, any other ins?
Unknown:No, let's move on to our year. Oh. Lindsay, do you have another Yes?
Lindsay Kemeny:Donell, okay, I'll. No explicit instruction and engagement. R n, oh, I didn't say that very well, okay, I'm gonna say that again, explicit instruction and engagement are in Think the principles of Dr Anita archer. I feel like a lot of people got trained. More and more are getting trained by Dr Archer. More and more when I go into schools to, like, present, more and more have had training or have been talking about these principles of explicit instruction, which is really great. Now I'm going to add a wish here. I wish this would also also filter into other areas, like our math, where I think we're still so kind of behind and just like, Oh, they're gonna discover how to do everything, and more discovery based instead of that explicit, direct instruction. But I think it, I do think more and more, we've also had more books come out that are aligned with explicit instruction of by Anita Archer. So yeah, I would say that's one more in.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, that's exciting, and something I get to look forward to. I had that training from Dr Archer many years ago when I was a literacy coach, but I get to attend again in January. That's great. So I'm looking forward to that. And the other thing I want, I I'm thinking about higher ed, of course, but Lindsay, when you were saying that, it was making me think Dr Archer said, which is another highlight of mine for 2025 was our, oh my gosh, the conference that we had at the reading League, our higher ed conference right before. And Lindsay, you participated in that. Yeah. And Dr Archer said, and I can't stop thinking about it, since she said it, we should teach our pre service teachers how to teach first and then teach them the content. And so when we're talking about explicit instruction, you reminded me of that Lindsay, when you said we need to apply it to math and science and whatever else we're teaching art even, right? So, yeah, okay, awesome. All right. Predictions, Donell, let's start with you.
Donell Pons:Okay, my year ahead prediction is connected to my what's in Okay, so and a data that you just talked about. So I think they're all pretty interrelated, period making better decisions about instruction and intervention, because we know more. I think that is my year ahead prediction, making better decisions about instruction and intervention because we know more. That's what I predict is going to happen. I'm going to will it.
Stacy Hurst:Yes, we'll have the same episode in December 2026 and we'll follow up on these. But I think that's a great one. Lindsay, I don't want to
Lindsay Kemeny:follow up on my prediction. Because I'm wrong. Okay,
Unknown:they're just prediction
Lindsay Kemeny:All right, so my prediction, it I think that more educators are going to be figuring out ways to use AI to help them, and really, that comes from our conversation with VIV and his his project, read website and all that. So I think more people are going to be using tools like that, but I think we're going to start seeing less technology in schools. I feel like we're starting to get pushback, and especially well for all different grade levels. But even like my own children, like high schoolers now, they're making them right hand write their essays and different things because we're having them. You know, these kids rely too heavily on AI. So that's my prediction, is that we're and even in younger grades, I'm seeing some pushback about how we are pushing technology, maybe too much too soon. And so that is my prediction, that we're going to start seeing a little less.
Stacy Hurst:You know, I think that would be a fantastic follow up episode too, because I am seeing that more and more as well, that schools just saying we won't use technology with the younger grades. I know that my own pre service teachers, for better or for worse, are using AI, and I think I can't remember who said it, but just to make sure that maybe we're going to get smarter with it, right? No pun intended, but if we're not outsourcing thinking, because AI is still so rudimentary, when I have students who use it against my instructions, it's actually very easy to spot, because there are so many errors in AI, so many actually, if you don't know the content, you don't notice the errors. So anyway,
Donell Pons:you know, I think it's interesting, based on viv's conversation too, when he talked about AI as a sparring partner, I had a conversation with my son, who was in college. Several are in college right now, but one of them, we have this conversation about AI and his use of AI, and he said, You have to have the discipline. And he wonders. He was wondering aloud, will we continue to have the discipline? Two he said, Get AI to be a sparring partner. Because he said, that's what I try to do with it. But he said, so many times it'll try to give you the. Answer. But if you don't have to say, no, that's not what I asked for, I rather want you to question me so that I can take my learning or understanding to another level. And he said, If we, if do, we have the discipline to do that, because it'd be a great tool for that, like VIV was talking about. So this will be really interesting to see what happens.
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, for sure. And it's so new too, we have very few guardrails around it. So I think it'll be interesting. But a sure, safe way is like what you mentioned, Lindsay, I'm even having my students. We do our we call them exit tickets, but they're, you know, just a review of what we learned for the day, or whatever. I have them write them by hand. And I think that there's more value to that. That's good. That's a good prediction.
Donell Pons:We know memory recall and handwriting, right? There is definitely research well, and
Stacy Hurst:so this is kind of leading us in the direction that we need to have more episodes about this. But there was also, I recently read this, a study on authors who had used AI to write even a portion of what they were writing, and when they did that, they could not recall what they wrote unless they did it themselves. So even for memory, that's what we mean by outsourcing thinking, right? We it does not get in our long term memory when we rely on AI for it. So I think Lindsay, you already said this, but I'm going to reiterate that writing moves to be center stage in our instruction but also the implementation gap becomes the real headline, right or focus, because we now know a lot about the science of reading, and we're learning more about the science of learning, but how do we move the ball down the court? Right? And that all comes down to implementation. So I think we're going to hear more about the science of implementation too. Okay, now we're moving on to wish lists. Who would like to start? Donell? Would you like to start with your wish list?
Donell Pons:Sure, 2026, wish list. More conversation around and we already touched on it. Text of all types and levels. That's what I'm wishing for. 2026 more conversation around text of all types and levels, and we're talking about all ages too. We could have this conversation. Should be having this conversation. I hope it's part of PD, across the country, it should be at least one of the conversations we're having regularly about how we're doing that and across topics, or across all of the genres and things that we're discussing. So it could be math, science, social studies. It should be in the in those conversations as well, and we should be talking about text and utilizing really good text. Because I don't think this challenge is because we don't have great text, we have fabulous text. Just the other night, I was going through my own personal library thinking, Oh, it's the end of the year. I'm going to clean out my move my books around, make sure they're organized again. And I found myself hunched down in a chair reading, and I had a stack next to me of what I wanted to hit Next. And I'm thinking, it's not a lack of really great text, it's opportunities and introduction and getting our students interested in because we're introducing them in a manner that makes them very interesting, and then spending time with them and moving them along the perky pace of Dr Anita Archer, oftentimes I've seen a book just lose all interest because we've done it to death, and we're even we're not even halfway through, and students are like, Oh, I don't think I even want to continue. So perky pace there as well. When we're doing text, if we want to do a longer text, it's not that our students aren't capable, and we can build them up to do that, but let's move that text along so they stay engaged. Let's not bury it in nitpicky little assignments, but let's keep the love of the reading going. Gosh, can I get going on that?
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, and using even the same things we would use in something as early as dialogic read alouds, right? That those connections to the text as you're reading it just, I think really good literature, or good text just adds context and depth to life in general, right? Makes life a little more meaningful and
Donell Pons:absolutely and on that note, because I thought of it so much, that's my lead present to those I love this year, I got a book for each of them that I think speaks to what they enjoy and love and thinking I'm pushing that again. I'm gonna push it again.
Stacy Hurst:I love that idea. I may just still it again. Okay? Lindsay, a wish list. All right.
Lindsay Kemeny:This is my wish. I wish that all teachers were properly supported by their school districts or schools by being provided with quality, high quality materials, that includes a high quality program, that includes books that go with the program, but also just more books that we can use in small group, tools, training and coaching. You know, if you are a district leader out there listening, I want to ask you if you are prioritizing literacy instruction in your schools and. If you say you are, do your budget decisions reflect this? Because we need to put, you know, you need to put the money where your money where your mouth is basically and I feel like we say, sometimes we have a lot of words saying we prioritize literacy instruction, but then we're not providing our teachers with the things they need to teach in the classroom, and then they're going out and trying to spend their own money or trying to find free materials, and they don't have the things we need. So let's set our educators up for success, which in turn will set our students up for success.
Stacy Hurst:So yeah, I wish. And you say they'll go out and have to find their own materials, that is, if they stay in the profession, if they're not well supported, then we're not going to have high quality teachers. So that is a great wish list list. Wish List item for sure. Okay, I'm going to say one that might be, well, it's a wish. So I'm not going to apologize for it, and I understand the complexity of this as well, because I am in the space, but I wish that teacher prep programs would stop graduating people who haven't demonstrated competency in teaching. Yeah, I would have to agree that could probably go in one of Lindsay's episodes, right? But that's my wish. I know it's a big one, but, and it's not as easy as it sounds, right? But just imagine,
Donell Pons:think of other fields that hold folks to a high standard in order to end up in that field, practicing the same should be of this one, yeah,
Lindsay Kemeny:and maybe we need to be paying our teachers more to have a qualification like that, right?
Stacy Hurst:Following it through all the way? Yes, well, and I think we do see full circle in higher ed, the impact of poor literacy instruction. I have students whose heart is in the right place, and they struggle with reading not because they not even because they have a learning difference, but because they didn't have the kind of instruction that we're teaching them that we need to be implementing
Donell Pons:So and, you know, Stacy and Lindsay both. It reminds me of a student I was teaching a high school setting and had a conversation. Invited him at lunchtime. He wasn't able to understand the poetry thing that we were doing, so I said, Come on in. I'm open all the time I'm available. Sat down, we had a quick conversation, helping you understand he's getting into this. He's able. And he ends the conversation by saying to me, do you mind? I just I have been thinking this whole time, and we've been talking, why are you teaching? I said, What do you mean? Why am I teaching? He said, Because you could do a lot of things. Why are you teaching? Yeah, that says a lot, right? How we treat teachers,
Stacy Hurst:I know. I wish the the profession itself, would be elevated in the eyes of everyone in this country.
Donell Pons:Yes, it should be. Why aren't you teaching? Yeah, that it's something. Why aren't you teaching?
Stacy Hurst:Yeah, okay, we could have a lot of items on our wish list. You guys want to do one more.
Lindsay Kemeny:I'm good. I that was my biggest one. I would say
Stacy Hurst:that's a really great one. Donell Do you have another one?
Donell Pons:And I just have a repeat. I've noticed I wrote this before you we had this conversation, and it says more data and research that directly informs practice. And you already said that too. So I think that I would love to see that on the occur.
Stacy Hurst:Great. Well, I will just add to that that I want to see a more serious commitment to oral language. From birth on right we've been here language or Yeah, language is everything, and we will have more items probably on our wish list that will be available, probably in our show notes, but that That list could go on and on, I'm sure, and we're open to hearing any that you have, either our listeners, any thing on your wish list? Okay, we're closing out 2025 Any other thoughts?
Lindsay Kemeny:Onward and upward? Here's to 2026 Yes,
Stacy Hurst:let's What do you think we'll be talking about this time next year? I mean, those are our predictions. Those of you listening
Unknown:how well our predictions turned out, yes, exactly. See amazing things, right?
Stacy Hurst:Okay, well, then I guess that is a wrap on this episode and this season. And thank you all to those of you who are listening, and especially if you've listened to the end of this episode, you can tell we put a lot of emphasis and heart into it, so it's been a good a good opportunity to reflect. Thank you so much. Lindsay and Donell, I love talking to you guys. You know that, but you bring so much to this podcast, as I know our listeners know as well. So I guess that I will sign us off by saying thank you for joining us for this season, and we will see you next year in all the episodes of Literacy Talks.
Narrator:Thanks for joining us today. Literacy talks comes to you from Reading Horizons, where literacy momentum begins. Visit readinghorizons.com/literacytalks to access episodes and resources to support your journey in the science of reading.